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On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:21:27 +0000 bas <baslake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Of course it is. The placebo effect applies to more than just > > medicine. > > > > Without a proper trial, you've no way of knowing whether it > > > > actually is better or you just think it is. (It's perfectly > > > > possible that you're right. It's also possible that you're > > > > wrong. Just listening to it isn't enough.) > > > > > errr, im not trying to impress any one with my system except my > > > self and i know it sounds far better so "a proper trial" isnt > > > even on the radar and i assure you its no placebo effect. > > > > You don't have to impress anyone, and if you're happy with it then > > fair enough. I'm merely saying that it's not possible to know > > whether it's actually objectively better or you just *think* it's > > better just by listening to it. If you think it's going to sound > > better, it *will* sound better. > i stand my ground,,, its not just "thinking" its better, the result > was stunning,,,, not imagination. going back a few years (about 35) Logically it is not possible to make that assertion. Bias is unavoidable in any individual assessment where the individual KNOWS what has changed from situation A to situation B. This effect cannot be dismissed, it is always present. You can no more avoid the placebo effect than you can avoid gravity. Bias can be balanced and the overall effect compensated by using a double-blind but (as a scientist and having scrutinised large numbers of trials and junk science) if you stand your ground based on the placebo effect, your judgement is in error and your feet are on quicksand. Placebo is just another name for operator bias. Bias occurs whenever anyone involved in making the judgement have any knowledge of what has changed between the various times at which a judgement is made. Bias is unavoidable; you can only compensate for it, never avoid it. Placebo != imagination Bias != imagination The placebo effect and operator bias are absolutely real effects, statistically measurable and completely unrelated to imagination. > in my system then (vinyl) i had a stylus that cost me £15.00 (a lot > then) vms15e mk11, and was going to upgrade so went round a mates > house and offered it to him, he was dubious, so said i would fit it > and if he didn't find any difference i would have it back,,i also > said i prolly wouldn't notice but he would, well, again he was blown > away and i was also,,,,, no placebo there either. Rubbish - you both knew the nature of the changes, the placebo effect had a significant effect upon both judgements. > when you have > listened to a system for years then make an upgrade change there are > bound to be differences you will notice good or bad Science has proved again and again that if the judgement is made with knowledge of when the change was made, the judgement will reinforce the beliefs of those making the judgement with a statistically significant effect. Double-blind randomised trials are the only rigorous method of compensating for the ever present placebo effect, no amount of bluff and blustering will change the reality. -- Neil Williams ============= http://www.data-freedom.org/ http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/ http://e-mail.is-not-s.ms/
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