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Although in fairness to the integrating the UI and OS question, I was fairly surprised when Windows 8 update failed with an error that says it can't talk to the task bar icon. 80243004 Wouldn't be so bad but the UI exposes an option to hide the icon which does it seem break Microsoft update. I guess this isn't strictly mixing OS and UI, since presumably I can push the upgrades without using Microsoft update. But there is something very wrong here, just need to know more about the innards to say precisely what. It also took about 6 hours to decide it wasn't going to install half the updates I asked it to do, really vanilla install of Windows 8 (possibly rather stale). I fear just a symptom that it is too complicated to be secure or robust, I fear there are a whole load of clone desktops on a variety of operating systems which are just a little bit down the complexity curve that leads to paralysis in the development. -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/listfaq