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Re: [LUG] website

 

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012, Neil Williams wrote:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 16:41:55 +0000 (GMT)
Gordon Henderson <gordon+lug@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Basically right now, no-one other than Paul wants to maintain it

Paul isn't maintaining it - Simon & I are. I pay the bills.

So why has it been the same old site with the same guys & gals on the front page for what seems like years now?

And who are they anyway? It's not an attractive feature, I have to say.

And you're going on about paying. Ye gods. What do you want? How much? It may have escaped your notice but I run a hosting company. Want free hosting? It's there for the taking.

(And Simon works for a web design company - hosting? It's available for free, perk of the job, isn't it? Although I do understand that sometimes you need to keep work and fun separate)

It's Simon who intervenes to keep the site happy at all hours of the
day and night when Apache gets slammed by the latest bot net.

The LUG site is of so little interest, it really should not be a target at all. Please tell me when the last bot net slammed the DCLUG site...

, I
offered Paul a wordpress setup because it's easy.

Ease of use usually works against security and where wordpress is
concerned, that is definitely the case. Security definitely matters.

WP has millions of installations. You want something thats easy to use, with lots of content easy to edit & update, then there will be a price to pay, but really - how often does WP get compromised these days? And how long does it take them to patch it?

You'll be telling me that sendmail which I run is full of holes next...

As for the PLUGIN w3-total-cache - well that hole was fixed in under 24 hours. It's history now. This is what happens with well maintained software.

You're making excuses because you don't want to change. That's all. Your sitting up there on your holier than thou Drupal platform, sending scorn to those who dare to use anything else. Does that embrace openness, sharing, GNU? You'll be telling me that there is no editor better than Emacs next...

So do something with it, or give it up.

Right now, one of the busiest WP sites in the UK is probably http://www.raspberrypi.org/ Wordpress. It just works.

You can cry all you like about vulnerabilities, etc. but it just works and it gets fixed rapidly if something does go wrong. Do not use potential security issues to rubbish a product - that's immediate proof that you have another agenda. Just because you don't like it or approve of it doesn't mean it's not good. I don't like or approve of Python, but millions of people use it...

My agenda is to encourage lively debate. To meet with like-minded people, share ideas and generally have a good time. Devon and Cornwall are 2 of the lest densely populated counties in the UK - we need to communicate, get together, meet, chat and so on. Otherwise we might as well be sheep on Dartmoor. Baah.

Oh, and incidentally, what are we doing about the Raspberry Pi? Here is the perfect opportunity to reach out to 100's of people in Devon who've bought them.... Myself and Paul have posted on the Raspberry Pi forums (phpBB - look a package with more security holes) which has helped, but as a group, what are you doing about it?


A wordpress setup will not cope with the archive. Choose what you want.
If you don't want the archive, fine.

I'm actually not interested in putting the (mailing list) archive under Wordpress - Mailman does that just fine. Paul may have mooted it to make everything look similar (principle of least surprise and all that).

I'd actually go as far as to suggest moving to a forum too (phpBB anyone? If it's good enough for the Raspberry Pi foundation...) Lets face it, email is for geeks and old people now. I deal with a group of young people (elected, so they change most years), and every year it's worse and worse to get their email setup. Even webmail is proving to be too much for them. This year I suspect we'll just not bother and they'll carry on using twitter/fb/etc.

Does anyone want to maintain a dclug twitter account?

And let's face it - so what if it does get compromised?

Simon & I care. There are other services on that server - they care.

I'm talking about a wordpress on one of my servers. That's where opendevon currently lives. Most WP compromises inject spam or malware into the output - very few these days actually change content, even less try to access other sites on the server. We're not running eCommerce behind it, so are really not a target to the credit card scammers... If it gets compromised, we just restore it from backup. And I've not had to do that for any of the wordpress sites I run yet. That's no guarantee I won't need to in the future, however it's an OK track record for me.

I run dozens of
wordpress sites on my servers - shit happens from time to time, but it's
not the end of the world.

It is a lot of work. Work I don't have time to do, work that Simon
doesn't need to do if the server is maintained properly.

So much work that you didn't ever bother to turn on sensible URLs? What does this mean:

http://www.dcglug.org.uk/node/1?destination=node%2F1

Now I know sod-all about drupal, but if it can't produce pretty URLs, then, well, Wordpress beats in in that respect.

(That's the bad username or password page by the way - I've just tried to login and it's not recognising my credentials)

If you don't have time, then give it up. Don't cling on to it, just let go.


SO: WHO WANTS TO RUN THE LUG WEBSITE? (Other than Paul, that is). And if
you do want to run it, please stand up and be counted - and then DO
something about it.

The website is running fine AFAICT.

It's RUNNING, but you don't have time for it. It doesn't get updated because it's not easy to update. Paul finds it frustrating to update it, and virtually no-one else can be arsed.


But if you do want to keep running it, then tart it up a bit. Make it easy for members to use and add their own data to it. Make it familiar. Make it attractive to people other than geeks who already know about Linux.


Simon is doing a fantastic job of
keeping the server happy. The LUG website doesn't need someone to run
it. It's my server, I'm the one paying the bills. Simon & I run the LUG
website and have done so for a long time.

There's that money thing again.

I've sick and fed up about people bleating on about money for LUG events and so on. If you want something to happen, then make it happen or give it to someone else.

How much do you want for the hosting? Seriously. I'll remove the money factor. What will happen then? Will you go ahead and change the site, encourage people to use it, improve the SEO, use it to bring people together?

Seriously will 15 quid a month really make a difference to the way the site is run? (I'm assuming it's on a £15 Bytemark package - hey the Bytemark guys are on the list, aren't they? Want to offer free hosting for all UK LUGs in return for a banner ad?)

If the LUG doesn't want that any more, fine, I can do an `rm -rf ./*`
any time. Paul doesn't have that access - Simon & I do.

That's somewhat unprofessional. However, just what is the LUG?

Paul has been a complete star since I joined the LUG. He's a one-man band in keeping the LUG together. He goes out of his way to arrange meetings and get people together. Look at the number of posts he makes compared to all the others.

Paul wants to maintain the site. Paul wants to update it. Paul wants others to update it. Paul wants the site to be lively, dynamic and interesting for newcomers.

Paul is the LUG.

If you're not letting Paul update the current site then you are killing the LUG.


Or shutup, sit-back and let it happen without whinging about it.

Please, Gordon. Take your own advice.

My advice? Ok. My advice is to wake up and move with the times.

All I've seen so far have been whinges about eye candy and a new look
for no good reason.

The website is dead. The LUG is dying. No-one gets off their fat arses to attend a meeting. When did you last attend? I don't think I've ever met you, have I?

At least I make the effort. I've also been going to a group in Yeovil and Penzance.

Oh, Paul posted about this on Friday - and it's taken you 2 days to read and catch up - or was it just that you saw stuff about the website and wouldn't normally bother with the list?

And look now - a dozen postings today. Is this what it takes to get people to wake up and take notice? A little bit of contention? Me ranting on as usual? Or is this just the most exciting thing that's happened on the list for years...


Let me check my archives:

Messages posted by Paul since I started keeping my own archive: 1655. Messages posted by you: 133. Call yourself a member? Just like the rest of them - 200+ members and they all just sit back and do sod-all.

Maybe you like that situation but I've found recently that if you bother to make the effort, people will come to you.

If you make the effort (like Paul does) and maybe people will come to the LUG - maybe we want district LUGs - e.g. the Exeter one - Torbay, South Hams, North (Well done to Neil Winchurst for making that happen!) but who's doing it?

Want a hackspace? Paul posted about that - one reply of "what's a hackspace" and 2 others. What happened? Nothing. Even with the offer of a place in Totnes (which I made the effort to go and visit!) nothing happened.

Oh, and while I'm at it (ranting!), who actually owns dclug.org.uk?

    Domain name:
        dclug.org.uk

    Registrant:
        The Devon and Cornwall Linux Users' Group

    Registrant type:
        Unknown

    Registrant's address:
        117 New Barn Lane
        Cheltenham
        GL52 3LQ
        United Kingdom

Who's that? Incidentally it expires in April. Last time the domains expired I tried to get in-touch with whoever and got abuse for my efforts. Not going to bother again.

I'm pretty fed-up with it all to be frank. When I found out about the LUG, I thought I'd meet like-minded people, have a bit of a social outlet and so on. It's been a bit of a struggle in the past 4 years I've been a member. I've met 1 or 2 good people and made some friends, but 200+ members and only 3 or 4 bother to go to the meets - if you're lucky.

Baaah!

Oh, and a Happy new year to you all when it comes!

Gordon
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