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On 3/26/07, Julian Hall <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Robin Cornelius wrote: > > I agree with this, if you have to use non free then do so. If you have > > a choice then use free. But where you can make a difference if if you > > have to use non free then campaign to get free. Write a *polite* email > > to the manufacture, help with any projects working on a free driver > > for your device (even testing and documentation updates are helpful). > > Most devices get a free driver in the end. > I've been deleting this thread unread as I generally can't be bothered > with getting embroiled in arguments for/against proprietary software. I > go by the old engineer's maxim of 'If it works, use it!' and so yes some > of my system does use proprietary software/drivers. Nothing wrong with that. I am not totaly against properity software to the extent others are. I do use in on linux, I have a tainted kernel. All i was saying was if there is a choice then try to use free. I am **not** saying *YOU MUST USE FREE*. In my case the open source nv driver does not do what i need so i use the nvidia version. At least they supply a driver even if its not GPL licenced. I think this is a big step for a company that they reconise the market is there. I want my nvidia cards to run with full 3d support, i have games that require it. I run cedega ( a commercial version of wine who actualy plow back stuff to the GPL code). It fact device driver manufactures haven't really got an excuse, they make money from the hardware, it should be peanuts to them to write some linux drivers even if they don't write a full applciaiton suite. > > I don't have the time (or inclination) to waste writing endless emails > to deaf manufacturers coercing them to allow open development of their > drivers. I tried that with Pinnacle after they started using a > proprietary chip on their DC10 cards. My emails were not even > *answered* much less given any encouragement. Many manufactures are ignorant in that respect. They often ignore end users but you need to build a critical mass so they realise its worth there effot, that there a market out there. If no one makes any noise how to they know there is any demand? > > The end goal is to get new users onto Linux. As the userbase increases > *that* will push manufacturers to open up their drivers. Money talks > and while Linux has a small following manufacturers won't see it as > commercially viable to bother with the investment. However as the users > increase more manufacturers will come onboard. Letter writing is > pecking at a stone. Increasing the userbase is wearing it away by erosion. Its a bit of both, they need to know that the linux userbase is increasing, if they *only* see more sales they think woopie more windows customers. If they get increasing complaints that people want a linux driver then eventualy it reaches a critical masss. Granted a lone letter will not do much, but isn't this the old "my little input will make no difference" if everybody thinks like that then it won't. > > I agree with everything Tom Brough said in his email. We as a community > need to entice people into Linux, not coerce them, and certainly not > scare them off with demands that they never touch a single piece of > proprietary code. What about the thousands who use WINE? They are > using it specifically in order to run proprietary software that is not > available in Linux. Are they going to be told 'You must not use that > software', many of whom are running essential business applications? Wine/Cedega are a great stop gap solution as its going to take years/decades to really sort out the problem. The wine job is great. The only problem is you get a catch 22 situation. If people by the window software and run it on wine its more win compatible units sold. I think you have to make a noise about this and say you want a native linux version. Yes we need to encorage users to linux not preach to them and it is so dispondent when you set up a system and some of there HW doesn't work. It is necessary to explan some of the principles here so they know why it dosn't work. > > Bottom line is what Tom said; If you are happy with your system, that's > all that matters. In the same vein as religion, I strenuously object to > people who try to convert me to their way of thinking, with Linux as > soon as I hear someone say 'You can't use anything other than free > software' my reply is 'Just watch me. If the open source community > cannot provide the answer to a need then I will go elsewhere.' End of > sport. And there is often no choice. You want your 3d to work or you want your windows 3.1 lecagy app to run on wine etc yes use something properity if you must. But I will still say you can make a difference and contribute to the community to help this situation. This is part of the "open source" too, it can't all be take take take, you need to give back as well or there is no point to any of this. -- Robin Cornelius http://www.byteme.org.uk -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html