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Paul Sutton wrote: > I am over my head here, I don't agree that we have failed just because > someone uses proprietary code, the more people we can get using > Linux, the more people we can hopefully get to campaign for better open > support by vendors. What's the goal? The goal of GNU/Linux is to create a free software operating system. People might always use proprietary software, but we should not advocate, support or encourage it. To do so sends the wrong message. > We need to educate there is an alternative, and that the alternative is > usable by users, while at the same time teach the ethos of free > software, getting someone to switch from Windows to Linux should be > seen as an achivement, lets help people, it will take time but take it > one step at a time, If people switch to GNU/Linux, that's a good thing, but if people switch over to run a bunch of proprietary software, because people seem to think it's okay, then we're failing. The goal is not to get more people to stop using Windows just to run the same non-free software on GNU/Linux. > I think free and propritary can exist side by side, on the same > system, Why? Do you not value your freedom? What proprietary software do you run on your system? > lets not put uses off by saying "can't do that its against the > free software ethos, ) if you do they may simply give up, and if they > do We really have failed. You think we should just support proprietary software? How is that in anyway supporting our goal of free software? We're not going say people can't do things, but we should refuse to help. > Look at ID software, they have relased their code as gpl, and to great > effect, more people will follow suit, the bigger the Linux user base > gets, the better, esp if everyone is on board and willing to campaign > to get free / open drivers etc. We just need to get people on board > first. What great effect has come out of the Doom and Quake source code? Getting people on board with non-free drivers doesn't help! How will you convince those people to one day stop using them? > Regarding pdf, that is a very useful format, even the Ldp uses it for > documents, surely we can be a little flexible on this. PDF isn't in question. Adobe Acrobat is what I'm asking about. There's a non-free Acrobat Reader for GNU/Linux - should we encourage everyone to install that? matt -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html