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On 31/12/12 01:18, Simon Waters wrote: > On 30/12/12 23:05, Gordon Henderson wrote: >> So why has it been the same old site with the same guys & gals on the >> front page for what seems like years now? > Because no one changed it, or suggested changing it, since I set it that > way. I may have asked things on occasion, the difference this time is armed with something I can use easily (WP) I came up with something I could post to the list. so posted an alternative idea. > >>> It's Simon who intervenes to keep the site happy at all hours of the >>> day and night when Apache gets slammed by the latest bot net. >> The LUG site is of so little interest, it really should not be a target >> at all. Please tell me when the last bot net slammed the DCLUG site... > There was some botnet abuse going on couple of months back, although the > issue I had to fix was actually something else entirely, the botnet just > frustrated the troubleshooting process (grrr). > >> So do something with it, or give it up. >> >> Right now, one of the busiest WP sites in the UK is probably >> http://www.raspberrypi.org/ Wordpress. It just works. > Personally no particular issue with switching to WP, I simply don't > think Drupal is that big a hurdle although I agree the interface sucks > in places. Certainly no one has been asking me why it is so hard, or how > to do anything for the last 3 years. Indeed the battle is to persuade > folks to login in the first place. > > What is probably needed is an editor. Someone who can spell, type and > knows enough about GNU/Linux to know when a distribution review needed > updating, and to email whoever wrote it with a gentle reminder (note to > self Debian has moved on). > > Probably also they should have a plan for content. Made a few suggestions on this. > > I think as the distribution reviews show you don't want content, unless > it is of local relevance, or relevant to a member, since everything else > exists elsewhere and adding it just creates a maintenance headache. > > The mailing list archive is low maintenance in this way, and people > expect that to age, and is the content most people seek out by dint of > relevance and the magic of search engines. However there is little hope > for the mailing list archive to attract new members unless it happens to > be a local reference. > > So the site probably just wants to be a handful of gateway pages and > links, which is pretty much what it is currently. > > Some bloggers would be good, and probably the most appropriate format > for meeting reviews and distribution reviews as they would also age as > expected. > >> Oh, and incidentally, what are we doing about the Raspberry Pi? Here is >> the perfect opportunity to reach out to 100's of people in Devon who've >> bought them.... Myself and Paul have posted on the Raspberry Pi forums >> (phpBB - look a package with more security holes) which has helped, but >> as a group, what are you doing about it? > Well sounds like as a group two of us have been posting on the Raspberry > Pi forums. Which reminds me I should post the next lug meet details to the forum. > > Asking a group is going to be open ended. > > I've almost zero interest in the Raspberry Pi personally. This is fine, as Gordon said it's a Linux box and people are using the Pi for all sorts of stuff, we as group have real opportunity to reach out to those users and users of other systems too, Linux has only just dropped support for 386's :) > >> I'd actually go as far as to suggest moving to a forum too (phpBB >> anyone? If it's good enough for the Raspberry Pi foundation...) Lets >> face it, email is for geeks and old people now. > We looked at a forum once before with basically no take up. Hmm, the nice thing about the Pi forum set up is 1. I can log in easily and post 2 I can watch / subscribe to topics I am interested in, and unsubscribe if need be There is no reason why we as a lug can't have both, If the tools are there, people see them and then use them, if you show a raspberry Pi to a person they are more likely to go and get one having seen it. Its just a case of using each tool in the right way. > > Inertia is a powerful force. > > I've been pondering such things recently, and am persuaded that forums > are probably better in many key ways. But it is how you get to there > from here without losing lots of members. > > From an apathy perspective it is easier to "forget" a forum, or not > visit for a year, where as email lists you have to make an active > decision to leave. I am sure we can post to both the list / forum., esp with regard to meetings etc. Perhaps the website can have a vote feature that says are you able to attend a meeting, like you get with google+ events. Perhaps a forum would perhaps complement the list, if someone posts to a forum they have problem there is no reason why that message can't be copy / pasted to the lug list and a reply sent, back to the forum. if the original poster subscribes then at least someone will get back and offer to help. so say there is a thread on computer security you may be able to subscribe to that, and help or promote your own services, same as if someone asks about VOIP or hosting, people get in touch with experts in the field and hopefully the person asking leaves happy and recommends the group accordingly. > >>> It is a lot of work. Work I don't have time to do, work that Simon >>> doesn't need to do if the server is maintained properly. >> So much work that you didn't ever bother to turn on sensible URLs? What >> does this mean: >> >> http://www.dcglug.org.uk/node/1?destination=node%2F1 >> >> Now I know sod-all about drupal, but if it can't produce pretty URLs, >> then, well, Wordpress beats in in that respect. > Clean URLs are enabled. > > http://www.dcglug.org.uk/join > > You just type the name you want in a box when creating content. > > They've been used for some content, all bar 3 were by me when it was set > up, or another bout of effort on my part later on tidying things up. The > other three (Neil S?) used them for the Plymouth Meeting pages. > > The password reset page doesn't need a fancy URL. > > The site could benefit from some SEO work, but we aren't competing with > anyone particularly, and I'm not sure we begrudge Exeter LUG number one > spot of "Exeter linux" ;) > >> The website is dead. The LUG is dying. No-one gets off their fat arses >> to attend a meeting. When did you last attend? I don't think I've ever >> met you, have I? > He's in the photo on the front page, which was taken before he moved to > Cambridge. > >> At least I make the effort. I've also been going to a group in Yeovil >> and Penzance. > Which are considerably closer than Cambridge. > >> And look now - a dozen postings today. Is this what it takes to get >> people to wake up and take notice? A little bit of contention? Me >> ranting on as usual? Or is this just the most exciting thing that's >> happened on the list for years... > To be honest I was busy doing other stuff I just saw the messages on the > mobile, wasn't even sure Paul meant the GLUG site since he hadn't asked > me about it. > >> I'm pretty fed-up with it all to be frank. When I found out about the >> LUG, I thought I'd meet like-minded people, have a bit of a social >> outlet and so on. It's been a bit of a struggle in the past 4 years I've >> been a member. I've met 1 or 2 good people and made some friends, but >> 200+ members and only 3 or 4 bother to go to the meets - if you're lucky. >> >> Baaah! > My motivation took a hit when I finally got around to organizing a > meeting after too long a break, hired a room in Exeter and got 2 > attendees to the meeting (thanks Mark and Sam for their contributions to > the room hire). Understandable, > More generally I'm happy to provide technical assistance for changes, > and the like, because it is the $dayjob and it is generally quick and > easy to do, and can be fitted in as and when. But time and energy for > organising/attending meeting is in short supply. > > More than happy to give up the group admin hat, I tried to persuade *** > to take it on, but suspect he is even busier than I. The "admin" hat > doesn't require much it is what you make it, other than people expect > you to know the answer to all the questions on the rare occasion someone > wants to know something others don't. > > We did have some money under the admin hat, we spent it, I'm not sure > having money is necessary or desirable as people get all worked up about > it, but are more than happy to contribute as and when funds are needed > for something. > We have some funds here, you talk about botnets, this surely is security issue, we had a discussion on this a while back, not botnets bit hardening windows / systems, as group we can help people to secure their systems and advise people then that is a good thing. You read a lot about experts saying just install a firewall or content filtering, great if you know how to, not so great for the end user whoi is worried changing the desktop wall paper will break the system (and yes some people are like that, they lack confidence) Advising people to subscribe to a discussion list and look out for the one or two e-mails regrding a meeting or specific thread, sn't exactly ideal. We can have both. Different tools have their +vs and -vs so using each tool well is what we want to aim to do. We have draft alternative site, (sort of) and agree it the current site needs a spruce up and contributors, and people are willing to take on the job of content management Maybe we can make a resolution to rebrand for 2013, I think we owe Simon and Neil a big thank you for their hard work keeping the site up etc. I am not suggesting we take this all away from them, just suggesting a few changes (even if, in the first instance its a big change) to make the lug more appealing etc and maybe help people. We should integrate with facebook, google+, twitter, etc how this works I have no idea but I am sure someone here can write a bit of code that would link a google (g+) link thingy to google + page or a like button to an event, not sure but I am sure between us we can do that. I don't even need a twitter account for this, we set up a lug one, share the details with myself and those organising meets and it should be possible for members to share meeting info on social media easily, its 2013 tomorrow things like this should be pretty transparent and just work. Paul -- -- http://drupal.zleap.net skype : psutton111 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-sutton/36/595/911 http://www.raspberrypi.org http://www.ubuntu.com -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/listfaq