D&C GLug - Home Page

[ Date Index ] [ Thread Index ] [ <= Previous by date / thread ] [ Next by date / thread => ]

Re: [LUG] School Server

 

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009, Richard Brown wrote:

> Hi Guys
>
> I had a chat with a school head yesterday who is once again investing
> in RM technology. I have tried to persuade her otherwise but her
> reasons cannot be disputed with. Namely that the support is full. If
> it breaks down someone comes and fixes it. If it needs updating the
> computer automatically updates. She doesn't have to do anything to the
> server - it just works.
>
> So can we respond to this please? Firstly is it possible to create a
> server that updates itself? Secondly, is there anyway we can encourage
> her to look at different systems? Any thoughts would be welcome -
> thanks.

Firstly, I'm not offering to do this - it's not my line of business, nor 
it it something I wish to get into.

(Also looking back on what I've typed here today, it's a bit of a ranty 
whinge!!!)

However, I've built and maintained 100's of servers over the years - from 
the inner sanctum of an ISP to live real-time VoIP to secure servers 
locked away behind firewalls. And some even more secure not even connected 
to the Internet (shock horror!)

>>From a server point of view - I don't have the OMG lets patch, update, 
upgrade it every Tuesday mentality... I build servers for a purpose and 
they (almost always) stay that way until they are retired or redeployed.

I don't always chase the latest upgrades, etc. because the reality is, I 
don't need to. I do evaluate their impact then make a decision though, and 
update if required, but that's rare. Feel free to criticise me over this, 
but that's the reality of the way I do things. I still have 2 servers 
running Debian Woody which are live and connected to the Internet with no 
firewalling other than what they provide for themselves. One has an uptime 
of over 3 years. The other is a little over 2 years now. (It's now in it's 
4th year - was only rebooted to add more memory last time)

Incidentally, over the years, I've never had an Internet facing server 
compromised through any issues with Linux (*nix, etc.) or the system 
software I've put on them (ie. LAMP).

Wish I could say the same for the application software though - there have 
been compromises, but they've been through poorly written PHP and Perl 
application code - bulletin boards, phpnuke, and the like, and poor 
passwords selected by the lusers )-: Stability issues? I've had hardware 
fail... That's my main concern, but soak-test a server for 3 hours and 
it'll run 3 days, test for 3 days and it'll run for 3 weeks, etc. You get 
the picture. I soak-test all boxes for a week or more if I can before they 
go out the door... (Unless they're Dells which suck too much juice which 
have their final tests on a customers site!!!)


So what's a school server?

For the admin department, probably nothing more than a file server - maybe 
some "Intranet" type applications. It will be behind the school firewall, 
so risk of external contact ought to be zero. It should be on a separate 
LAN from the teaching network. (especially if it's holding financial and 
maybe student details) so risk of attacks from within ought to be 
minimal too. So patching, updating, etc. really ought not to be a 
desperately high requirement. Even less so when we start with a known 
robust platform (ie. Linux)

So what I think I'm saying is that if patching, upgrading, etc. is your 
main concern, then something is wrong, or people have gotten the patch 
Tuesday mentality burned into their brains when it's really not needed at 
all.

So what's a school server and why is the head buying into RM?

She's buying RM because it fits the purpose. RM have a lot of time and 
money invested into schools, and rightly or wrongly, there seems little 
choice right now.

I'd suggest selling them "appliances". Sell them a "file server". Sell 
them an "application server" or an Intranet server, and so on. (Actually, 
sell them a Drobo if they want a file-server, as I suspect I'll point 
punters down that route rather than build them a dedicated Linux box 
again)

You later wrote:

> At the end of the day I'm wondering whether Linux is ready to tackle RM?

Linux isn't the issue here, it's the applications.

If you write the applications, offer them via a "black box" or "appliance" 
type of service, complete with support, upgrades and maintenance, then 
what it will boil down to is very probably price - not the buy-in price, 
but the on-going price in terms of licenses, support, etc.

First thing you need to do is find out what these applications are.

I give my servers a 4-year life and expect them to be replaced during that 
final 4th year. This can be stretched to 5 years if you really need it - 
but it all depends on the applications that will need to be run in 4 years 
time.

I do know of one school who's gone partially open source - more on the 
admin side of things though - they still have MS on the teaching side, 
however the office, for the most part is Linux (diskless workstations too) 
open office, firefox and so on. With one exception - the finance office 
where they use XP and Sage, but at least the data is on a Linux server! 
However they're an independent charity funded school, so probably have 
more say in what goes on than a typical state school does...


Personally I think you'll hit a brick wall. (for now) Schools have been 
dealing with this model for too long, so anything that doesn't fit the 
model is viewed with high suspicion. I get this all the time with 
telephone systems - corp-rat manglers have been so brainwashed into buying 
feature licenses and expensive maintenance contracts for their phone 
system, that when someone comes along and offers them a system with 10x 
the functionality for 1/10th the price, they do not believe it would ever 
work. (Or are embarased to admit this to their peers and managers!)

Telling the IT dude of a 120-strong law-firm in Somerset that they could 
buy one of my phone systems outright for 3 months worth of the 7-year 
leasing deal they had just gotten themselves tied into was not a sensible 
move, as I found out recently. Their loss. They'll come back in 5 years 
time though. I can wait... And so should you. The geek will inherit, etc.

Like MS, RM got in early and when there was little competition they got a 
foot-hold and grew from there. Their time will come! If you want to beat 
them, you need to provide a viable alternative - and not just to 1 or 2 
servers here and there - you need a total solution, maintenance, the lot.

Gordon

-- 
The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG
http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list
FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html