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On Monday 15 September 2008 14:52, Benjamin M. A'Lee wrote: > On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 11:29:42AM +0100, Tom Potts wrote: > > I think we're getting lost here - the software IS free, Firefox software > > is free - FireFox branding is not. Debian branding is not free either so > > you should drop that too. Or would you mind if I too Debian source, threw > > most of it away and replaced the kernel with NTLoader and sent it out as > > 'Debian' cos thats what your effectively demanding of Mozilla over the > > 'FireFox' brand. > > I don't see anything wrong with that, other than it being slightly weird. > ;) > > The problem, as I understand it, is not that the logo or name is > trademarked - plenty of free software is, and nothing else has this > problem. The problem is that the licence of the logo is not free - you > may not use it without Mozilla's permission, they don't give permission > if you modify the code, they only give permission to a specific group, > etc. (which means that Debian might be able to modify it, but Debian > users wouldn't - not at all free). Similarly, you are not permitted to > use the name Firefox without using the Firefox logos, or something along > those lines. > > > They retain control of the brand and how it works - there been 1/2 a > > billion downloads of FireFox and you want 50,000 Debian users to take > > control of it for their own reasons. > > I don't see why "lots of people use it" is a good reason not to change > it. Lots of people use Windows, so why use GNU/Linux? Anyway, I don't > want Debian to take control of it, or anything else - I want it to be > free software, and only free software, without these catches and hidden > restrictions. > > > Even Bill Gates would at least try and buy the company first before doing > > that! > > If a fork is the only way of guaranteeing its freedom, then that seems > perfectly reasonable to me. Firefox has become an icon of free software, > probably the most widely-used (and widely-recognised, even by people > who don't use it) free software project, and if it's not really free > then that is a serious problem. > > > Please can we fight the enemy and not the Palestinian Liberation Front or > > was it the Peoples Popular front for..... > > The enemy is proprietary software. If Firefox is not free, then it is > the enemy. I wouldn't go quite that far - the vast majority is free. The > restrictions are building up, though, and the restrictions could easily > build up. > > (One of the four freedoms is the freedom to improve the program, and > release your improvements to the public; if you can't do that in any > useful way, without having to get permission to use the trademarks and > name and whatever, then it's not free.) > > -- > Benjamin M. A'Lee || mail: bma@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > web: http://subvert.org.uk/~bma/ || gpg: 0xBB6D2FA0 -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html