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On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 11:29:42AM +0100, Tom Potts wrote: > I think we're getting lost here - the software IS free, Firefox software is > free - FireFox branding is not. Debian branding is not free either so you > should drop that too. Or would you mind if I too Debian source, threw most of > it away and replaced the kernel with NTLoader and sent it out as 'Debian' cos > thats what your effectively demanding of Mozilla over the 'FireFox' brand. I don't see anything wrong with that, other than it being slightly weird. ;) The problem, as I understand it, is not that the logo or name is trademarked - plenty of free software is, and nothing else has this problem. The problem is that the licence of the logo is not free - you may not use it without Mozilla's permission, they don't give permission if you modify the code, they only give permission to a specific group, etc. (which means that Debian might be able to modify it, but Debian users wouldn't - not at all free). Similarly, you are not permitted to use the name Firefox without using the Firefox logos, or something along those lines. > They retain control of the brand and how it works - there been 1/2 a billion > downloads of FireFox and you want 50,000 Debian users to take control of it > for their own reasons. I don't see why "lots of people use it" is a good reason not to change it. Lots of people use Windows, so why use GNU/Linux? Anyway, I don't want Debian to take control of it, or anything else - I want it to be free software, and only free software, without these catches and hidden restrictions. > Even Bill Gates would at least try and buy the company first before doing > that! If a fork is the only way of guaranteeing its freedom, then that seems perfectly reasonable to me. Firefox has become an icon of free software, probably the most widely-used (and widely-recognised, even by people who don't use it) free software project, and if it's not really free then that is a serious problem. > Please can we fight the enemy and not the Palestinian Liberation Front or was > it the Peoples Popular front for..... The enemy is proprietary software. If Firefox is not free, then it is the enemy. I wouldn't go quite that far - the vast majority is free. The restrictions are building up, though, and the restrictions could easily build up. (One of the four freedoms is the freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public; if you can't do that in any useful way, without having to get permission to use the trademarks and name and whatever, then it's not free.) -- Benjamin M. A'Lee || mail: bma@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx web: http://subvert.org.uk/~bma/ || gpg: 0xBB6D2FA0 -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html