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Re: [LUG] Upgrades


On 07/02/17 15:32, Joseph Bennie via list wrote:
>> On 7 Feb 2017, at 15:09, Simon Waters via list <list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> Stop installing software from random places, that is why Windows
>> and Apple are a mess.
>> Just stick to the distro repos, set it to auto-update, be happy.
> thats just the most dumb ass suggestion i've ever heard!   whats the
> point of an open platform if you constrain yourself to a limited set
> of installable packages.

Hmm, I'm not so sure there chief - for your average *user* I'd say
Simon's advice is pretty solid. It's not what I'd personally do but it
is what I do for many of my end-users. Set and forget, what's not to
like? If you don't know what you're doing you should probably stay away
from anything not in the repos I'd think and for the rest of us, as you
say, it's an open platform, so go wild. Not so sure about "limited"
package selections either... how many available apps does Debian provide
these days, something like 30,000+? That's about 30,000 more than the
Windows and Apple repositories after all. Which don't exist!

> You might as well admit that installing software on linux was simply
> better when we did ./configure; make; make install;  after having
> downloaded a zip from a newsgroup by bilbo baggins

Haha, good times. Yeah, that was not a good way to do things. I still
have to do it all the time unfortunately - in 2017 you just add a random
"git clone some-random-arse-repo.git" instead and skip the download
tar.gz. What progress we have made!

> Windows and apples a mess .. sorry but installing apps on both
> platforms is charm compared with linux.

Not quite sure I agree with you or even understand you quite right here
though, apologies. Windows and Apple a mess for installing new apps?
Yep, pretty much although the new walled garden AppStores they provide
now are at least curated properly, if you like that sort of thing (I
don't, but end users seem to). Linux systems come with gigantic repos
and their own highly sophisticated package managers so I'm not sure what
the imagined problem is there. And of course, all three systems will let
you hunt down random packages or even source code from the internet at
large and perform manual installs if you must. Well, Apple won't until
you disable Gatekeeper but that's another story.

> flat pack feels like a common sense approach for user space apps.
> repos are prefect for core libs and frameworks , drivers etc .... but
> its clear that while distro packaged apps are easier , they dont
> actually work for the majority of app distributers.  so it better to
> have a 2 pronged solution.
> packages where apps are very distro specific, and flatpack for apps
> that need specifics.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here I'm afraid. I'd like to be
wrong, but if we revist this same conversation in five years I'm willing
to bet that snapd packages and flatpak will have gone exactly the same
way as every other distro-agnostic packaging tool that has ever come
before, and there have been a lot of them too. I.e., they will be dead,
and good riddance.

We've both joked about it but the only truly distro-agnostic installer
there has ever been and possibly will be for many years is the
venerable, dreaded source.tar.gz. It will certainly outlive us all.

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