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Re: [LUG] NTFS drive unmountable

 

On Fri, 2013-07-19 at 19:29 +0100, Philip Whateley wrote:
> Thanks bad
> 
> I'm not in the least offended and am grateful for the advice. (Any pain
> from the advice would be minor compared with how I'd feel if I had (a)
> lost data of real value, or (b) really needed to restore from a backup.)
> 
> Could you also pitch in with advice on a good method for backups for
> home users? I am tempted by Spideroak - not least because it can mirror
> to a local disc to get a faster restore speed (which also gives some
> redundancy). What would you suggest for a typical home user who is not a
> sysadmin and who is not running a full home network.
> 
> Phil
> 
> On 19/07/13 17:47, bad apple wrote:
> > On 19/07/13 16:50, Philip Whateley wrote:
> >> Hmm
> >>
> >> Still problems: intermittently slow to mount, then wouldn't mount then
> >> would mount the drive but not the volume etc etc
> >>
> >> Took out USB at both ends and then plugged it back in again, it mounted
> >> (and faster).
> >>
> >> So probably the lead. I'll try a new one but I'll also look at
> >> replacement drive as SMART is detecting bad sectors. At lease I have a
> >> fighting chance of copying off anything remotely useful.
> >>
> >> Many thanks
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >
> > Can't help but chime in here, particularly as I'm in the middle of
> > recovering two destroyed external USB Mac drives dropped off by a DJ who
> > has been a 'bit rough' with them.
> >
> > Once again (and not for the first time I note) you've been getting
> > *really* bad advice from the list on this subject, who seem to have some
> > kind of weakness against disk recovery. Disclaimer: I have done a LOT of
> > disk recovery, and I'm good at it to the point where literally half of
> > my mortgage was paid off by some epic recovery jobs in my not so distant
> > past (failed RAID array holding Â1m of architectural material, amongst
> > others).
> >
> > First things first - backups are useless until you have tested
> > restoration, as you've just found out. Only an imbecile (not picking on
> > you Phil) doesn't test restoration from their backups regularly,
> > especially if they're stupid enough to only have one, i.e., a half-assed
> > "plug in an external USB disk every now and then and run some random
> > tool". If anyone is still doing backups like this - and I expect 90%+ of
> > those who even bother backing up in the first place fall into this camp
> > - you're a moron, so stop it.
> >
> > When your disk goes south, the first thing you must do is stop randomly
> > hammering it like a fool. Repeatedly re-plugging it, power-cycling it,
> > hitting it with fdisk -l, remounting it, running badblocks (which
> > ideally isn't supposed to be run standalone, but as part of fsck, etc)
> > is obviously just stupid, for reasons I hopefully don't need to
> > elaborate. Pro-tip: it just exacerbates the problem.
> >
> > Along with common sense, patience and experience, you will also need
> > some tools to do this properly: a lot of free disk space,  linux
> > (obviously) and I personally have a rather expensive write-blocker kit
> > because all the read-only options in the world you can pass to mount
> > still won't stop any OS touching the disk anyway - particularly the NTFS
> > dirty flag, amongst others. Personally, I rip the troubled disk out of
> > any enclosure first, as they simply compound any issues (particularly
> > anything made by WD, the most useless external disk vendor who have ever
> > existed) and hook up the on-disk SATA/SCSI/SAS/IDE/etc port to my write
> > blocker, which then connects to my recovery box via USB3 or firewire800.
> > At this point I know that any further write backs to the disk are
> > physically impossible (this is also a basic requirement for forensic
> > evidence gathering; any data collected without a hardware write-blocker
> > is legally inadmissible) and I can proceed to immediately dump the
> > entire disk to an image file, usually via ddrescue.
> >
> > The disk can now be disconnected, bagged and tagged and put aside
> > because after all, self-evidently, only a total moron would continue
> > experimenting on a failing drive that holds the only copy of their data
> > right? Right?
> >
> > >From now on proceed as normal with the tools of your choice, according
> > to your skill set and budget. The very first thing you need to do is
> > copy the original image you have just taken, and only work on the copy,
> > logging every step as you go. Now at this point you may be complaining
> > that this is unrealistic, as to recover your 1Tb drive you obviously
> > require at *least* another 3Tb of free space: 1Tb for the original
> > image, another 1Tb for the copy and you're going to need yet more space
> > to dump all the recovered data once you can get at it: well, tough. You
> > should see the space requirements I hit for recovering failed RAID6
> > arrays as I image individual disks and painstakingly stitch the results
> > together.
> >
> > I'm not even going to talk about the original physical disk itself -
> > SMART errors and other information all require hitting the disk (data
> > recovery no-no rule 0, in case you haven't noticed) and it's presumably
> > the data that is valuable to you, not Â50 worth of spinning rust. Only a
> > masochist would continue to try and re-use a failed disk for anything
> > remotely important after this. Sure, once all your data has been
> > recovered and you're happy, you could always reinitialize the disk and
> > throw it in some random box as a completely untrustworthy, throw-away
> > scratch volume but why tempt fate? Bin it.
> >
> > There is exactly one of the above requirements/recommendations that you
> > can ignore: the write-blocker. Mine is an expensive and specialist piece
> > of kit, and you're not doing evidence gathering for the Police after
> > all. None of the rest of it is optional: well, technically it is, but
> > trust me, follow the advice or otherwise in a few more days we can
> > compare notes. I'll have been paid handsomely by Mr DJ for recovering
> > 95-100% of his rare groove MP3 collection and you'll be crying because
> > you lost all your data because you insisted on doing stupid things, like
> > hammering an already failing disk.
> >
> > Ok, I realise that on my usual passive/aggressive scale this email has
> > been decidedly more at the sharp end, but, I don't mean to be rude or
> > offend, just helpful, even if it is in a somewhat blunt and abrasive
> > way. The tone hasn't been helped because this isn't the first time on
> > this list I've seen absolutely idiotic "advice" given in response to
> > disk failure issues. For god's sake, if anything else in life was
> > exhibiting failures, even less-technical stuff like a door hinge or your
> > car ignition, would you then decide it's a good idea to repeatedly open
> > and shut the door again and again, or keep turning the key in the
> > ignition hoping that against the rules of probability (and physics:
> > entropy only increases remember), it's suddenly going to get better and
> > fix itself? Of course not. So why would any moron apply the same line of
> > thought to a damn hard drive, countless orders of magnitude more complex
> > and delicate?
> >
> > And here endeth the lesson. Better put on my asbestos pants once more, I
> > should think I might get a bit of flak for this :]
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> > PS: this email was aimed at everyone, but Phil, I genuinely hope you
> > manage to get your data back one way or the other. Good luck!
> > PPS: I've just finished restoring the backup GPT label of disk 1 over
> > the corrupted primary, resurrected the HFS+ partition and am now happily
> > copying 850Gb of MP3s to safety. Working from an image of course.
> >
> 
> 

I just use the PCs in the house to do the work, I have the Shop user
created on each of them (the kids don,t complain as the never see the
login) and just 
alias syncdata='rsync -avs -e "ssh -l shop" shop:/home/shop/ /home/shop

in each .bashrc file on each machine

also to make life really easy I alias all my ssh connections as well 

so to connect to the raspberry pi 
alias raspi='ssh -l shop raspi'

so just 2 commands

raspi 
(then) 
syncdata &

and I have a copy of everything there 
takes 2 seconds 

I do it for random  machines before I logoff,  rsync only transfers the
changed data not the whole lot so after the first time you do it
(especially on a NW of 100MBS) its fast.
-- 

________________________________________________________________________


Regards

Kevin Lucas
Minions Post Master(Sub) 
A dedicated Linux user
/usr/bin/microsoft
Skype minions_shop
www.minionsbandb.co.uk
www.tearooms.minionsbandb.co.uk
FaceBook Minions_shop
Po House, Minions,
Liskeard Cornwall 
PL14 5LE
01579363386






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