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On 19/01/12 07:33, Rob Beard wrote: > > Take my parents and a few of my non-technical friends for instance... > they don't need to connect to their PCs from outside their networks, > they don't host servers etc and they wouldn't understand it if I > explained it to them. As you say you have to take extra steps to support them. Let me be clear I think end to end unfettered, no NAT, is desirable for everyone. Kai is right, I just don't think he realises how bad things have gotten. There are security implications, but they are definitely manageable, and it isn't clear they are worth the opportunity cost. Do your parents run VOIP/Skype, have you looked at the machinations it runs through to get through firewalls and NAT, what if none of that was required would it be a smaller program and more reliable? Of course it would. I know people working on peer to peer social networking, and the biggest networking pain is not the algorithms it is not the asymmetric bandwidth, it is that to contact most of the peers you have to bust your way through NAT. -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/listfaq