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On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:08:51 +0100 "Jonathan Roberts" <jonathan.roberts.uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > Am I correct in assuming that the only open source Linux device is the > > > Zaurus (and even worse windows mobile devices which can be hacked)? > > > What happened to the much promised Linux phone from Qtopia? Or the Road > > > 101 (which is EXACTLY what I'm looking for dammit!)? > > Check out Open moko - looks cool :D "Ian Lawrence" <root@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > have you seen this -> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded > it is available in bleeding edge developer alpha for gutsy. If you know > how to write software for gnome hildon desktop please get involved. This typifies the problem - too many separate approaches. All the work is useful but it all happens in little pockets. This specific model of this type of device and no others, etc. The hard bit is creating upgrade paths between them all and finding a common embedded platform that can cope with any device - not just specific models. Why should users be locked into specific devices? Yes, GPE/Maemo need upstream developers but if anyone here has the itch to create software for handheld devices, look at Emdebian too. Emdebian can provide UbuntuMobile, GnomeMobile, GPE, GPEPhone, Maemo, Hildon and Qt (just as soon as that becomes buildable again) by harnessing the flexibility and expertise in Debian - the only distribution that is prepared to invest time and effort in maintaining difficult ports like arm and mips that are vital to all embedded work. Debian is willing and able to support cross-building and there is a large amount of work going into supporting multi-arch and other tools. Emdebian can also provide mechanisms to upgrade from a GPE installation to a Qt installation - if your device has or can have access to enough temporary storage. Why must you use Maemo on some devices, GPE on others and go without on most? If you don't like the calendar on a Maemo device, why can't you choose a calendar from GPE or from the desktop? Many already run WindowsMobile, others run versions of other proprietary systems - there is clearly room for a universal free alternative. It will take time but if you want to have a hand in how this works, now is the time to get involved - when things are fluid and there is lots to do. It requires a fair bit of self-motivation because there are significant hurdles in the way of anyone starting out with cross-building and very little documentation. The terminology is confusing to start with, let alone getting the packages installed and built. You need to have a broad programming background - able to work with any and all packages and build tools and you need to be running Debian. (No apologies for that, Emdebian is Embedded Debian and relies on lots of Debian infrastructure.) Forget python, ruby and scheme - this is a world of C/C++ and POSIX shell (not bash), built using tools written in Perl and bash. One aim is to use Perl to cross-build an environment that never needs Perl. There will certainly be no room for python or any other interpreted language - the interpreters are just too large. Doing embedded development this way means that upstream (GPE, Maemo etc.) spend less time working on the packaging issues and more time on the actual code so everyone wins. Currently, packaging issues are well down the TODO list of teams like GPE and that's as it should be. Users should be able to install free software on any device that has a CPU architecture supported by Debian, some form of permanent storage, some form of volatile storage and some form of input/output. The only way to get there is to work on a common platform (glibc) that makes the embedded world look like the desktop or server world - different architectures using the same packages with the same configuration. After all, Debian on a high-end arm device is the same as Debian on i386 as far as a user is concerned. All Emdebian is trying to do is extend that to all arm devices and then to all embedded devices. Small is good, tiny is better and bloat is the enemy. -- Neil Williams ============= http://www.data-freedom.org/ http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/ http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
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