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Re: [LUG] sendmail rejects



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Adrian Midgley wrote:
| On Friday 09 July 2004 18:50, Simon Waters wrote:
|
|>>Why not just sign all your emails - all the end user benefits (they know
|>>it is from you can can discard the other emails claiming to be from you)
|>>and none of the drawbacks of SPF.
|
|
| Many of the people I exchange email with are insufficiently clued to
handle
| signing, but that isn't what SPF is for.

I disagree the key point behind SPF is to stop spoofing of email from
addresses. You can do this by changing the entire email infrastructure
or you do it by using established Internet standards S/MIME, OpenPGP,
both of which are already incorporated into all sensible email clients,
and one of which even occur in Outlook family (although I wouldn't
recommend it).

|>>SPF transfers work from 1 to 3.
|
| Is that very much?

For the likely benefits gained reengineering the entire email
infrastructure is way too much work. For the work involved we could
implement entirely new email architecture with less grief.

| I envisage setting up a rule that deletes unseen all email whcih
claims to be
| from a domain which has implemented SPF and whose SPF record does not
state
| that the machine from which the email came is one of that domain's email
| servers.

So the spam will come from elsewhere - so the benefit is only ensuring
Paypal scams come from Paypal employees and crackers, or paypa1.com

| The designers of eg pobox.com who rather than being just large email
systems
| are large email systems that relay mail for many mobile users - their
worst
| problem - will have to establish either SMTP AUTH, a good idea for mobile
| users I'd say

SMTP Auth moves the restriction on email from trusted IP, to someone who
happens to know/guess/steal the password for a mail account.

I don't have a problem with the further deployment of SMTP Auth, it
needs to be done well, and I don't think most implementations are there
yet. It must rate limit email (goodbye to emailing your whole address
book), it must log and reject multiple password attempts, and it
introduces password management for something that may never of had it
before.

|>>It doesn't solve the spam problem, and
|>>it only partially address impersonation (unlike signing emails which
|>>addresses this one properly).
|
| It doesn't address impersonation at all.

I think you missed the point here. That is all it addresses and it does
it badly.

| The only thing it addresses by
| design is the spoofing of email from lines.  This solves one part of a
large
| and complex (spam) problem, in a way that seems to me to be
proportional and
| somewhat clever.

I think it is the "proportional" I disagree with.

| Screening out a large number of emails quickly on the basis that they
are not
| from where they say they are allows more resource to be applied to the
more
| clever and trickily sneaky spam.

To be honest I expect XP SP2 to have more impact on spam, as it
addresses some of the core technical problems.

|>>Since SPF doesn't actually address the spam problem, it doesn't reduce
|>>(2) significantly at least not until you switch on the "don't accept
|>>email from non-SPF users" or those advertising all addresses (like AOL
|>>was at one point - may still do) and that isn't happening anytime soon.
|
| That was not my understanding, and of course if one adds even a single
pointto
| the spamishness score on the basis of SPF records that don't allow an
email
| to be discarded out of hand, it will make a big difference to the
probability
| of a spam getting through.

You can score likely spam sources with RBLs in Spam Assassin without
reengineering the whole of SMTP. I think your assuming SPF is a spam
solution - so I think you missed the point.

| Spam being a social problem will require a complex adjustment of
society to
| deal with, SPF is one bit of technology I've been convinced of the
merit of,
| and the various laws on UCE while poorly effective in their own right
share
| the merit that they provide a criminal offence which has been
committed by
| most senders of spam which cannot easily be blocked on the basis of
where it
| came from.

Almost all spam is sent using compromised PC's, which almost certainly
violates criminal statutes in all countries the spammer are likely to
live. In this country unauthorised access to computers carries a very
hefty maximum sentence.

The antispam houses claim they know who the people who send the bulk of
spam, and they claim they have provided this information to the US
Department of Commerce. So if you want a "social solution" press for
enforcement.



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