Re: [LUG] CoderDojo Plymouth

[psutton <zleap@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 24/05/18 21:07, Andrew Kendall wrote:

When I was first involved with making my own hardware and software, it was in a computer club in the late 1970âs/early 1980âs. There were several models of computer around, a lot of them kit built and customised.

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Some were built to a price, all were variously capable, mostly dictated by how new the design was â it was a fast evolving market.

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Nobody said âyou must use this model hardware, or this O.S. itâs bestâ. We all helped each other understand what we had, and built bits for them, some quite extensive bits. It fostered a healthy, inquisitive, friendly environment several times a week, in the pub, our shed, and youth club.

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It provided a brilliant place for challenges and fostered ideas and intellects and helped them grow.

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It wasnât, and isnât important how applicable the technology was/is to modern systems, it never will be. To compare an Arduino to a Cray is obviously ridiculous. But once you understand the first, you begin to see how the second might work, and whether you might like to work in that sector.

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What it did was to provide a fertile environment to enable the basic, simple hardware and software to be understood, so that one day it could flourish so that the modern, advanced stuff could be too.

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Itâs NOT important what hardware youâre using Arduino, Pi, Microbit, Android, or whatever. It IS important that you use SOMETHING simple and cheap with good, multi-source Support availability to start out from. Indeed I would question the validity of any club only using one hardware platform; having several enables the participants to make their own decision on what they want to try based on their own evaluation. It HAS to be cheap and simple so that when you kill it through ignorance or accident, you donât have to get a bank loan to replace it. It HAS to be simple and cheap so that itâs easy to achieve making it do something rewarding relatively soon. It HAS to be versatile so that that âsomethingâ can be as simple as flashing an l.e.d. or as complicated as sending an S.M.S. text.

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NO, these devices wonât make you good programmers or master hardware designers, theyâre not intended to be!!!!! Theyâre intended to be easy and cheap to learn, with some extended lifespan for a lot more complicated and diverse projects if required. Treat them as such, and have some patience and understanding for those people who want to take the first steps to learning a new skill without having to read hundreds of pages of User Manual and/or buy hundreds of pounds worth of hardware. They can do that in a few years when they know what they want.

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Try to remember how you once didnât have a clue how electronics and/or software worked, and how you learned.

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Everyone has to start somewhere, at the bottom and it can be difficult, so small easy steps at first are important. The hardware isnât and neither is the software.

I agree with you here, this is about grass roots, providing a fun, supportive environment to explore systems, what i was suggesting in response to Gordon is that we can also explore other ways to control / program devices, being able to upload sketches to an arduino from the command line has advantages.

Paul

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From: list [mailto:list-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Tipney
Sent: 24 May 2018 15:53
To: list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [LUG] CoderDojo Plymouth

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Hi All,

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On 24/05/2018 12:00, Paul Sutton wrote:

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On 24/05/18 10:29, Giles Coochey wrote:

On 24/05/2018 09:47, Tom via list wrote:

On 24/05/18 09:14, Gordon Henderson wrote:

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Not really interested anymore.

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Mostly because the stuff I do for real (and get paid good money for)

are miles apart from the things the 'dojo wants to be involved with.

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E.g. Arduino - I do not use c++ for real-time embedded applcations.

The Arduino platform is, frankly, an abomination and does not

encourage good programming (or hardware!) skills whatsoever.

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I do use the Arduino hardware platform, but usually for prototyping -

I then go on to develop my own hardware, or at least my own shields

for the Arduino where appropriate.

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The bbc microbit is too closely linked to Microsoft and Python too.

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So my view is that things like the dojo ought to be viewed as a nice

little club, but leave the real world teaching to schools and

universities. 

Up to that point I would agree with you. My daughters are being

'taught' IT by someone who knows nothing about it. I've spoken to

several teachers and all they seem to be able to share is their fear

of it. I spoke to a teacher involved in coordinating code teaching and

the basic problem is none of the teachers have any IT experience. Kids

ask them questions they cannot answer.

As for universities - I've mentored someone with a 2.1 in computer

science from a red brick uni who didn't know how to debug a program!

It needs people with experience in there.

Tom te tom te tom

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I am hearing similar things from other people, some from the Linux user

group.ÂÂ Not sure how to solve this issue.

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I'm not a coder, but I work in IT infrastructure, self-employed, and

have a general interest in tinkering. My thoughts on this is that the

importance is in generating interest in Technology (whether it be via

learning how to do trivial tasks with not necessarily the best tools, or

by crossing the bridge between causing a physical action via an

electronic manipulation of a variable or vice versa).

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By starting off with a large pool of users, then sure, while that pool

may decrease in size over time, those left will continue to explore the

technology available to them, learn to google for answers, learn to ask

questions etc...

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The appeal of Pi and Arduino is the cost - Arduino is almost within

pocket money reach for some teenagers, Pi perhaps not as much so, but

both are certainly within close family birthday/christmas present zone,

and many schools can assist to fund this access to technology.

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Back in the early 90s there was this guy called Linus who didn't like

the restrictions that minix put on his hardware, and he wanted to

explore the multitasking capabilities of the 386 PC processor, the rest

is history.

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The fact that the toolset is substandard shouldn't get in the way of

proclaiming the hardware as useless.

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The Arduino clones are more than affordable,ÂÂ the Pi zero is also

affordable,

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While the technology such as the Arduino IDE may not be great, at least

there are alternative ways to get it to do things, a coder dojo is

perhaps a great platform to introduce a better way to get programs to

run on the Arduino. If YP are keen to learn and are open to ideas then

you can show them and help them get to the point where they can

confidently programme an arduino without the normal IDE then that is

great for everyone. As the fall back to help is at least there at the

coderdojo.

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I agree with generating interest, but generating a postive interest, as

a lot of people what PE was like at school and many may say they hated

it and are put off physical activity as a result, so a positive

experience with Computer science is also important, what do the kids

like doing, for some simply making an LED blink is great, and grabs

their interest.

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A lot of schools have digital leaders, if they can be encouraged to come

along to coder dojos perhaps they can leave with ideas to present to

teachers and act as a way to keep in touch and help teachers and other

school staff. without those teachers taking time out of weekends to

attend in person.

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Once you know what 'kit' a school has already you can work out perhaps

what to help them get,ÂÂ An IT suite in terms of a set of Desktop PC's

with separate monitors is ideal for PI's, as you already ahve keyboards

and mice too. Where as a set of Laptops could mean you go a different

route.

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Lets encourage and support the teachers, even if you just give them 1

resource it can make a difference.

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Paul

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Many thanks for all the input - it's always good to have different opinions.

Just to be clear CoderDojo is not a school or teaching environment, it doesn't have teachers but 'mentors'. The kids are expected to think for themselves and only use the mentors after exhausting the other options (read the manual, ask a friend, google). The projects are the ones they think up.

Here is a quote from the suggested charter:

2. The main objective

To facilitate a free, safe, and fun learning opportunity for young people aged 7 to 17, where they can learn to code, and discover and understand technology in a sociable and informal learning environment. This will be achieved by establishing a club (Dojo) in which youths can meet regularly to learn new and important skills. At the Dojo, they will learn how to build websites, apps, video games, and much more. All activities relating to the Dojo are to be carried out in accordance with the CoderDojo charter, available here:Âzen.coderdojo.com/charter

If the young people enjoy their time at the dojo and make new friends in a safe environment then anything they learn on the way is a bonus. If it's at all similar other coaching I have done I usually learn more than they do!

I hope we will make use of whatever hardware and software we can reasonably get hold of in order to widen the kids horizons before they have to start making those important life choices.

If you feel able to contribute to this movement then please consider getting involved.

Chris

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