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<Snip most of your reply that I agree with, or at least appreciate you understand why you've made choices> > [1] Who remembers when an ISP account meant connection, email, usenet and > webspace? Seems we're getting less for more money these days Um, my isp still provides email, webhosting and usenet. Although I don't know why... Email, as already discussed. Plenty of choice out there, and as linux users we are all familiar that we can run mail servers ourselves for free. Webhosting - domains are cheap and having a isp.net.uk/users/username/zyx/~user url isn't that attractive if you want to give it out. And again, you can host that yourself on your linux box if traffic isn't scary. Usenet. I recall a discussion in 1996 at an isp I worked at where they were already dropping binary groups because they made up over 80% of traffic, and I can only imagine it's even higher now. And even then, the non-binaries were often the hangout of spammers, cross-posting politickers and hate mongers. That negativity drove groups to forums and now, more so to Facebook. But seriously, more for less? ADSL is very cheap imo, certainly considering the use I get out of it. It's also very reliable. Go back a few years and remember a penny a minute dialup charges (and higher before that), and I had ISDN home highway. £80 a month for 64kbit in about 2002 (and call charges, two call charges if I wanted 128kbit) and at least once a year it would stop working entirely, taking up to a month to get repaired. Now I can pay as little as £20 for over 20mbit of always-on low latency and nearly always working connection. So yeah, I disagree with your statement. I think we've very well served and we've just grown to take some amazing things for granted. Kids today don't know they're born... etc etc, grump grump. :) (And if you want more of the same, talk to me about PC hardware prices!) -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/listfaq