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> Its not really without any basis - the fact it dies because of crap firmware Yes it is! Three years ago in January we had a sustained low temperature period where temps did not go above -10c for a week. I had two servers in unheated buildings for the duration, no problems. As I said to gordon, the only issues I had were D-link poe splitters where about 4 of 25 died on the same night. (And tbh, most of my focus at that time was dealing with emergency water supply issues and boiler condensate drains freezing) > is annoying - but running your PC in a loft or anywhere outside the limits > stated can cause problems: > Thermal cycling in a loft can raise the temperature to 60C and plunge it to > -15C. Doing that on a regular basis will make things expand and shrink and > work loose. The inside of a turned on server does not vary that much at the lower end - and lower temps are more efficient for electronics (provided they don't contract the PCB or components too much and crack tracks or joints, but this is unlikely if powered up) If thermal cycling was that pronounced in this situation, roofs would be falling off. And while -15c to +60c may be possible, not here it ain't! Strong winds aside, the inside of my loft rarely drops below 5c. There is a HUGE difference between what manufacturers claim is a safe working range and what really is. Not below 10'c? REALLY? There are many datacentre ranges depending on green credentials, but 16-24 is generally considered 'ideal', whilst <10c is sometimes used for high density, and an upper range of 40c entirely realistic. (Ultra low aircon temps can cause condensation issues here, I'll grant.) I don't think this is anything but a cynical attempt to get as narrow a working range as possible buried in the small print so they can wriggle out of warrantee claims. I would not be surprised if HP haven't also buried all-time low and all-time high counters so they can refuse warrantee claims if there is any suggestion the server has been used below 10'c. "Your computer exploded? Sorry, you broke the warrantee by running it for ten minutes on the 12th December in an ambient temperature of nine point five degrees." HP are /not/ an ethical company and if anyone else made low cost and (mostly) well built servers, I'd be using them instead. But then, I don't think any other major manufacturer is especially ethical either. > Also having something get cold and then have humid air (popping open the > loft hatch) can result in copious quantities of condensation - in a loft you > can get that anyway as the roof heats up and dries off the condensation > (ice) on the inside of the tiles. If the roof is leaky enough to do that, chances are the ventilation will deal with it. If you had that much condensate on the inside of your sarking/tiles you'd have soggy insulation, ceilings and dangerous electrics, not to mention wet rot. > They design PC's to work mostly where you are, and to stretch it to the > limits you are expecting it to work at would add considerably to the price. I've had a server in that spot for 12 years without any temperature related issues, they're tougher than you might think. (Stupid firmware bugs aside!) -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/listfaq