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On 30/08/12 14:57, Philip Whateley wrote: > On 30/08/12 11:32, paul sutton wrote: >> On 30/08/12 11:14, Gordon Henderson wrote: >>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2012, paul sutton wrote: >>> >>>> ICT post with Dartmoor National park authority, may be of interest >>>> >>>> http://www.devonjobs.gov.uk/it-dartmoor-national-park-authority-ict-officer-technical/35682.job >>>> >>> Ye gods. Look at the salary: £16,440 - £19,621 >>> >>> For a technical post; Screw that! >>> >>> Gordon >>> >>> >> Yeah, but low salaries due to illiterate employers are common in the >> south west, >> >> I saw a post the other day expecting level 2 childcare learning and >> development and AGAIN paying just above the minimum wage, And >> employers wonder why they can't get staff with the right skills. >> >> >> Paul >> > OK - as someone who works in EY childcare I can answer that - totally > off topic! > > Government specifies that councils must provide 15 hours per week of > free childcare for every child over 38 weeks. > > Government also specifies the amount of money councils spend on > childcare. In the case of DCC, the council pay £3.62 per hour per child > for parents' free entitlement. This has been frozen for 3 years. > > Government also specifies the ratios (Statutory Framework for Early > Years Foundation Stage) of staff to children (currently 1:8 for 3 year > olds and 1:4 for 2 year olds). The welfare requirements really mean that > you need a minimum of 4 staff even with about 15 to 24 children in a > "session" otherwise the quality of provision suffers dramatically. These > requirements are enforced by Ofsted. > > In terms of pay, the industry standard in Devon is to pay level 2 Early > Years / Childcare or unqualified at national minimum wage only and level > 3 at around £6.90 / hour. As a PhD qualified senior manager I can afford > to pay myself 99p above national minimum wage!!! > > At those rates we just about survive using fund-raising to top up our > income. I think anyone offering anything above national minimum wage for > level 2 is actually being quite generous. Most of the commercial > nurseries only employ apprentices as the lower paid staff (for whom the > national minimum wage is only £2.60/hour) and then sack them when they > qualify - but then they need to turn a profit, which as a charity we don't. So gaining a qualification has no benefit as you are basically unemployable due to being Qualified. > > In addition when we have SEN children, or children with a Protection > Plan/Order, we have to swallow a significant amount of extra work for > which there is little or no funding. As a result, most of the managers > end up working about double the hours they are paid for. So, my > effective hourly rate is probably about £4/hour. We also often have to > employ 1:1 SEN workers for whom we get 33% of the cost. > > And - ultimately - yes, you are absolutely right, it is an appalling > wage; but the blame lies with Government, and DCC who are attempting to > meet the statutory sufficiency of places at minimum cost. All this to > meet government targets to get more parents into work and reduce the > bill for Working Tax Credit. > > It is not the fault of the employers, who are squeezed between fixed > income, fixed staffing numbers, escalating national minimum wage, and > fixed overheads. We have also had the introduction of single offer point > for primary school entry which has dropped revenue by about £17k pa (and > we were already only just above "break even"), and there will soon be a > further requirement that all staff "in-ratio" be qualified level 3 or above. Are we talking about nurseries here as in under 4's as I work in an after school club so it seems that area is different, I do have the new EYFS stuff printed to read through, > Me - I still do this because I believe that we can have a positive > influence on the lives of children and families (especially > disadvantaged), and that is ultimately more important than money - but a > living wage would be nice! I also agree with the point that it isn't about the money, but when you see jobs advertised with that level of responsibility and paying barely a decent wage, then see people moaning about the quality of applicants it just frustrates me. > As the final salt in the wound, central government is currently > undertaking a consultation on how the cost of childcare can be reduced > still further. This may result in the ratios being relaxed in order that > even less money can be spent, which is hardly going to make the quality > for children better, and may result in safeguarding issues. Well safeguarding is hardly a strong point in a lot of areas, and it seems that the issue is just the same with adult care, low wages, low moral, poor training and lack of retention all adds up. > > Phil > I work in an after school club, and earn more than this (unqualified) and am trying toget a level 2 and this is proving a nightmare given my tutor is sub standard. Hopefully she will be able to assess me at some point in the new term and I can claim a level 2 award and then find a decent provider. However that provider may have to PROVE they are of sufficient quality and no just because a provider has outstanding ofsted, does not mean they are capable of providing decent training. The whole system to me is a shambles and the people who lose out are the children, When i was undertaking a teaching assistant course with the OU it covered people who help children and how keep changing these key workers has a NEGATIVE effect on children, they get used to someone and then that person leaves. Paul -- -- http://drupal.zleap.net skype : psutton111 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-sutton/36/595/911 -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/listfaq