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Hello again I finally discovered how I managed to rsync to my usb disk which was refusing even with sudo. I had first booted up with the usb disk connected. This put user and group as root. I could not change the owner using chown. Unmounting and remounting the disk put james as user so rsync then worked without sudo. It had a problem with the very small number of hidden files and could not save any (invalid argument (22)). What I cannot understand is why it listed most but not all files as it worked through everything in /documents/. (All seem to be there in the backup.) In some cases only a couple of files in a directory are listed - in others it would seem all of them are. To my simple mind, either only the files that are modified are listed or all are. The other minor problem I had was trying to modify only a part of the saved file - a directory which had two words in its name with a space in between. If I need to do this in future, how do I deal with the space - is it %20 or something? Thanks Next stop cron - this seems more challenging. -- james kilty http://www.kilty.demon.co.uk -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html