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On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:06:30 +0000 "Ben Goodger" <goodgerster@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On 07/12/06, Neil Williams <linux@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > I don't consider wireless to be "basic functionality", neither is 3D nor > > graphics acceleration nor internal PCI modems. > > > If a PCI modem - or indeed a wireless modem - is all you have, then it's > pretty basic. > In these situations the user has a choice between using Linux with the > non-free driver where available, using Linux without networking or using > Windows. Since lack of proper support for USB modems kept me from Linux for > two or three years, I don't see why any normal user would tolerate it - A machine on a home network doesn't need a modem of it's own. One hardware modem can support multiple machines - I know, I used to have exactly that configuration. The proprietary internal modems were removed and replaced with ethernet cards, one machine was given a cheap hardware modem and ipchains did the rest (it was a while ago). > they'd likely choose either the first or last option. In the last option > they're using _all_ proprietary software by choice; in the first they're > using a whole ton of free software (good!) and a single proprietary kernel > module which provides access to their networking. You are confusing networking (ethernet) with modems (phones). Ethernet can provide access to the internet - just use a router instead of a modem or a hardware modem where ADSL is not available. There is *no* need to support proprietary internal modems with non-free drivers by default. Absolutely none. > This should come with the > system as it may be vital Wrong - how is the user going to know about the issues if you hide the issue by default? No non-free package is vital to anyone. Not any more. Stop thinking that everything you want is essential. There is a world of difference between "want" and "need". > what shouldn't happen is that NVidia drivers are > bundled as they are not necessary: 3D is of course not basic functionality > and the free drivers should be used wherever possible. My point is that > where not possible, there is an effective choice between proprietary drivers > and a doorstop for many people. There is no "essential" hardware that is not supported by free software drivers. There is a hardware or software solution for every essential need. 3D is already supported by free software - well in advance of Vista. What is needed now is *wider* support for 3D. i.e. what is needed now is for users of non-free drivers to get involved. Dump the non-free junk and set about helping the 3D developers to work out how to support different cards. > Ben, what is more political than the proliferation of proprietary > > software into countries that cannot afford basic healthcare or > > sanitation? Why should poor countries not have a free operating system? > > Why do you support non-free distributors who want to prevent those who > > cannot use proprietary software from having access to that technology? > > > What has this to do with an e.g. American using a proprietary wireless > driver for the hardware he owns? Because that selfish act denies the opportunity to improve the free alternative. When the next whizzo junk arrives on the rich man's doorstep, he's going to dump the old one. Maybe someone has the sense to send the older device out to someone who could not afford the original (Tom?) but there's no point if the free software driver has been neglected because of a lack of input and testing. > $IMPOVERISHED_AFRICAN_COUNTRY does not have > any preexisting hardware and as such is free to choose things with free > drivers. ? Eh? drivers without hardware, interesting. Hardware often comes free in these situations - from "early adopters" who absolutely must have the absolute newest version months before official release. > I'd like the FSF to stop trying to force freedom upon me by telling > Mr. Shuttleworth to withhold my freedom to use hardware I own. Tortuous logic. You want to prevent freedom from dissuading you from denying freedom to use proprietary hardware with a proprietary driver because you don't care about fostering freedom by encouraging the free alternative? The FSF isn't forcing freedom on anyone - you are denying freedom by using non-free!! -- Neil Williams ============= http://www.data-freedom.org/ http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/ http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
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