Re: [LUG] today's meets and some observations etc.

[DaveNull <davenull@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Neil Williams wrote:

> I can't help that, however, that was the intention of the threads that started 
> the meeting. How it turns out is less predictable. 

I wasn't blaming you, I was pointing out you were over selling it, no more.


> but not a newbie either. How many 'Windows-only' users would have followed the 
> discussion?
>  

more than ever before, windows users are getting pretty clueful, knowing 
you are locked in to proprietary stuff and doing something about it are 
however two different things, but I think you are seriously under 
estimating the mean or median windows user to assume that kai's talk for 
example would have gone over their heads.

> Personally, the first thing I do when I am called to fix a Windows box is hack 
> a DOS command line. It's the only way to get decent control over the system - 
> that and regedit. I only ever use Windows at work now (non-IT) and there 
> isn't time for anything else. Just get into DOS, fix the problem and carry 
> on.
>  

lots of things you can't do in dos though innit, doesn't address large 
disks very well for starters, sure things like ipconfig /all and convert 
fs etc are very handy, but most windows problems are appearing to be 
malware related or user related, and s+d spybot etc are quicker 
solutions. but my response was more along the lines of "not all of us 
used computers that had dos anywhere on them"


> Uhh, do you want to check that? You wanted to encourage vulnerabilities in IE?
> (Note the lack of a negative in my original - I wasn't saying that you chose 
> not to have IE thunking 16bit code, I was asking if you like it thunking into 
> 16bit?)
>  

yes, I want to encourage vulns in IE, and viruses and trojans....

as our resident doc will attest, without such things darwinian forces 
will produce 3 headed monsters instead of antibodies

each new windows / ie vuln moves us ever closer to the emperor having no 
clothes.

you know I'm not into linux because I hate windows.

I'm into linux like caxton was into the printing press, it takes the drm 
away from the scribes

human society is certainly doomed to mass bloodshed if things progress 
down the "big brother" route.


> That is why I keep talking about previous meetings - you seem to be basing a 
> lot on the one meeting. From my perspective, the variety of meetings is in 
> line with the composition of the group and we do not concentrate on any one 
> area. Individual meetings benefit from a single focus but different meetings 
> cover VERY different areas. Yes, we need a few welcome meetings at the moment 
> - but that doesn't mean we can't do them, won't do them or refuse to help 
> those who would benefit from alternative meeting formats. Please, go ahead 
> and book the meeting you want - the more the better.
>  

I just don't accept the idea that meets can be deep geek only or newbie 
only, that's the road 2600 went down and look where it went.


>  
>
>
> Not at all, it's when a rant covers old ground without signs of anything new.
>  
maybe the same message needs repeating until it becomes an axiom that 
nobody like the crediton guys gets away without the meme infecting them



> This is a public archive - it does nobody any good to have discussions that 
> follow such a pattern.
>  

duly noted

> If you want to look at that, we can. There are a whole load of technical areas 
> that we could cover. From your own perspective, I would recommend that the 
> meeting is one or the other - by all means let's have two meetings, one 
> 'welcome mat' and one techie.
>  

this is the bit I have issues with, if they cant hack bourne again they 
must be a newbie, it smacks of going to a php con and shouting down the 
guy in the corner with the webshop asking about utf8 and his customers 
not being able to complete transactions.


> Can't we have a little fun together sometimes?? 

god yes, go for it, but are you there to play first and promote second, 
or vice versa?
I think you can guess which I am, and I find it makes for a very rich 
and diverse playground

> I like all that stuff, it's 
> great to meet others, get to know what other members can do, what they know, 
> who is the best person to ask when something crops up later.
>  
absolutely, did the crediton guys go away with this information?

> We can't afford to get stuck in any rut - all welcome and no depth is as bad 
> as all gabble and no introductions.
>
> There is no point in every meeting being a welcome mat format. Just as there 
> is no point in every meeting being a mega-hack session. We don't do that - 
> there are a variety of meetings, a variety of topics and a generally relaxed 
> and mellow attitude to what actually gets done.
>  
I'll tell you what you don't do, and I can give you some classic 
examples of disabled bikers (there's two other minority groups for you) 
getting this UTTERLY wrong too, you don't get the image of what linux is 
across to those who are not already in the coven, this is really hard to 
explain adequately in a few short lines of sterile text, but anyone who 
is into apples will probably get what I mean.

> We just 'throw it together' for most meetings and it works well. When we want 
> to make a show of something and do something that would catch the eye of the 
> non-technical people, often those outside the immediate group, we can and we 
> do.
>
> Actually, there have been quite a few meetings that have accomplished NOTHING 
> of the original plan! Some of those have been noted by the attendees as the 
> most successful meetings they had attended!
>
> So, please, chill out, relax and let's have the meeting you want. As long as 
> we can still have more meetings like the last one as well.
>  
I don't see it as either or, if I open a computer shop I can't decide 
monday is luser only day and tuesday is overclockers only day and 
wednesday is server day, in any other field you care to name it's "ok, 
you want a base unit only with no OS, thats over there"

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