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On 03/04/11 09:34, Neil Winchurst wrote:
I have now had a good go with my new computer, running Linuxmint v10 KDE. My current computer is still running Kubuntu Hardy so I have noticed a lot of changes.
This is because on Hardy you was probably running KDE 3.5, where as Kubuntu from 8.10 onwards uses KDE4 (this also includes Linux Mint KDE versions).
There were a whole load of changes from KDE 3.5 to KDE4, in my opinion they went backwards. I've tried KDE4 and I just can't get on with it at all, although I know people who get on better with KDE4.
It is still possible to get KDE 3.5, I believe it's now called Trinity (basically some developers forked the KDE 3.5 code and continued working on it).
It is possible to install Trinity on Linux Mint, I haven't tried it myself but maybe this forum link might help:
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=56834 It appears there are also basic instructions here: http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/install.htmlYou'd need to add the Maverick repository to your sources.list and then add the GPG keys. If you don't know how to do this I'm sure someone can post some instructions (or I can later on this afternoon when I have a bit more time).
I understand you can install it alongside KDE4 and just select which desktop environment you want to use when you login (this way you can have KDE4, KDE 3.5, Gnome, LXDE, XFCE, and many other environments or Window Managers) and try them to see which one you like best
Maybe someone else running KDE4 might be able to advise on the rest of your issues (such as adding launchers for programs which aren't on the menus) and the issue you're having with extra desktops.
And as a by the way, in Mint I have set it up to switch on the Num Lock key at log in. It does not seem to work.
Not sure about this, is it a setting in Mint? I've generally seen this sort of setting in the BIOS on PCs.
So my final point is ... I have used Linux for over 10 years now and Kubuntu (so KDE) for 8 years. Yet I am struggling with this new version of Mint. We, the group, are trying hard to get people to try Linux. How much harder will it be for them to go from Windows to any version of Linux? I know I keep banging on about this, but we will need to provide a lot of help and hand holding for newbies for a long time if we are to succeed. So we need to work with people who live near us, which is one good thing about the fact that, as a group, we are scattered around the two counties.
I find Linux Mint Gnome edition or the LXDE edition to be much more Windows like. On the Gnome edition it has a larger start menu (I believe which is also used in SuSE Linux) where you have places, and applications or favourites. It's similar to the KDE4 menu in a way and also I find a bit like the XP, Vista and Windows 7 menus.
The LXDE edition has a more simple menu, you click the start button and you have your application categories (Accessories, Internet, Office, Graphics etc) and you can select one of these and then select your application. I find it to be more like Windows 2000 or 98 (or XP, Vista and Windows 7 with the classic mode theme).
With regards to newbies, the same could be said about the switch from Windows XP to Vista or Windows 7. Just because it's Windows it doesn't automatically mean they'll get on with it straight away. I found switching from XP to Vista was a bit of a struggle at first, as was switching to XP from Windows 2000 (I hated XP at first), or from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95.
I think in all honesty switching from a Windows machine to a Mac would be more of a struggle for some. I've had a Mac, I spent a lot of time using OS9 and earlier and early versions of OSX, but when I use my friend's MacBook running OSX 10.6 it was still a bit of a struggle. Some of it might be down to frustration with things not being where you expect them and then getting frustrated trying to do things (I've found this myself).
I've also tried to help a couple of users move from Windows to a Mac and they really struggled without some handholding so it's not just switching to Linux which is a problem.
I'll be able to comment about folks moving from Windows XP to Windows 7 in a month or two when the company I'm contracting at makes the switch to Windows 7. I'm sure they'll be some folks who struggle with the transition whereas others might just find it easy (either because they can take change better or because they've had Windows 7 or Vista at home).
The folks I feel sorry for are those running Ubuntu who are going to go from the familiar (to them) Gnome to Unity. This is the exact reason I dumped Ubuntu and went to Linux Mint (the Window controls changing in Ubuntu 10.04 was bad enough, switching to Unity though was a change too much for me).
Overall from experience of switching folks to Linux from Windows, I do think though that we need to organise some sort of support structure (not everyone wants to join a mailing list and be bombarded with mails), and some folks might not want to use forums. I'm not entirely sure how we could approach this, maybe giving folks our e-mail addresses (and optionally phone numbers) for help, maybe offering remote support using tools such as TeamViewer (which is dead easy to use once installed) or offering a follow up visit?
I dunno, this is something we need to discuss and work out what might work best. As I said in another thread, I'm happy to visit folks and offer some help, BUT I don't want to be travelling too far to do this. If it's a case of popping into see someone for an hour say in Paignton or Torquay then I don't mind so much (as long as they're flexable to when I can pop over) but I'd rather not be travelling to Exeter or Plymouth especially (don't mind going from work to see someone for an hour in Exeter assuming I've not got plans).
Hopefully as we go along we can also find out what things people are struggling on and maybe write up some simple guides to follow and post them on the web (or make something available in ODT format that the folks can print off, or we can print them for them). I did this quite a lot when I worked at GCap as I was getting asked the same thing reguarly, so I'd write up some instructions and e-mail them to the users to try and follow, 9 times out of 10 it worked well.
Anyway, sorry for the long reply... anyone else have any comments? :-) Rob -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/listfaq