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Tom Potts wrote: > On Wednesday 19 March 2008 20:39, Simon Waters wrote: >> Simon Avery wrote: >>> ... but >>> IMO rebadging Thunderbird and Firefox as Icedove and Iceweasel is just >>> STUPID. Sorry - there's no other word for it! >> Most hardcore Debianites agree with you. >> >> Have you read about the issue? >> >> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354622 >> >> Mozilla corporation asked Debian to choose between the DFSG and using >> the Mozilla trademarked names, and gave them about 1 month before >> release of Etch in which to make a decision. >> >> So they made the only reasonable decision possible and dropped the names. > Sorry - but are you suggesting that everybody drops everything for Debian? >> I guess they could have moved Firefox and Thunderbird to the graveyard >> that is "non-free", and removed the Debian customisations that upset >> Mozilla, but then it wouldn't have been part of Debian at all, and >> couldn't be included in the default install for a Desktop, and that >> would have been stupid. > Oh! You are suggesting everybody drops everything for Debian! > > Firefox and thunderbird live on happily in ubuntu and other debian children. > http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=iceweasel-l10n suggests that iceweasel > is about as popular as IE on Debian. Even after its been assimilated! > > Believing in the free software movement surely should allow > others the freedom to chose their fix and release methodology. > Religions set to impose their ideas on others. > Groups advocating freedom should not enforce their idea of freedom on others! > > Tom te tom te tom > > I think you are forgetting that Mozilla are equally guilty of chosing to enforce restrictions on their trade marks which have created problems for the Debian Ethos (which they (Debian) have worked around as best they can) .... Choice works both ways you know ! AFAIK nothing is stopping you from installing Firefox / Thunderbird on a Debian distro if you choose to. Frankly I have no problems using Iceweasle or Icedove (and I do exclusively) Ubuntu doesn't follow the same ethos as Debian... Canocial don't see any problem in shipping Firefox / Thunderbird under Mozilla's terms, and that's their choice and the choice of Ubuntu users. You still have the choice. It doesn't make Debian wrong because they do it the way they do it, it just makes them different. I'm uncomfortable with the Mozilla licensing terms and for one are thankful that Debian have found a workable compromise.... Although I don't religiously go out of my way to avoid using Firefox. I don't subscribe to Popularity Contest (by choice) so my vote for Iceweasle / Icedove is not counted. I understand why it is useful to the debian distribution team, but never the less I've never read too much into popularity contests in any shape or form. Unfortunately you can prove almost anything with statical analysis, for example I've given up sleeping because most people die in bed ! ;-) If it really is that distressing choose not to install Debian, but IMHO your missing out on a great distro of GNU/Linux, and simply because you don't like your browser being called IceWeasle ? ... well I won't complain it is YOUR choice after all :-) Tom. An email created and delivered by IceDove -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html