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On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 09:06 +0000, Ben Goodger wrote: > On 07/12/06, Neil Williams <linux@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > I don't consider wireless to be "basic functionality", neither > is 3D nor > graphics acceleration nor internal PCI modems. > > If a PCI modem - or indeed a wireless modem - is all you have, then > it's pretty basic. > In these situations the user has a choice between using Linux with the > non-free driver where available, using Linux without networking or > using Windows. Since lack of proper support for USB modems kept me > from Linux for two or three years, I don't see why any normal user > would tolerate it - they'd likely choose either the first or last > option. In the last option they're using _all_ proprietary software by > choice; in the first they're using a whole ton of free software > (good!) and a single proprietary kernel module which provides access > to their networking. This should come with the system as it may be > vital - what shouldn't happen is that NVidia drivers are bundled as > they are not necessary: 3D is of course not basic functionality and > the free drivers should be used wherever possible. My point is that > where not possible, there is an effective choice between proprietary > drivers and a doorstop for many people. > > > Ben, what is more political than the proliferation of > proprietary > software into countries that cannot afford basic healthcare > or > sanitation? Why should poor countries not have a free > operating system? > Why do you support non-free distributors who want to prevent > those who > cannot use proprietary software from having access to that > technology? > > What has this to do with an e.g. American using a proprietary wireless > driver for the hardware he owns? $IMPOVERISHED_AFRICAN_COUNTRY does > not have any preexisting hardware and as such is free to choose things > with free drivers. I'd like the FSF to stop trying to force freedom > upon me by telling Mr. Shuttleworth to withhold my freedom to use > hardware I own. > > The problem I believe is that Mr.Shuttleworth is quite probably infringing on the GPL! Sorry after starting the discussion I haven't contributed much - I had a lot of interesting emails to read this morning though! I think I agree with Neil: the very idea of proprietary software, kernel blobs etc is completely against the ideas of the community. It's freedom that lets our community exist as it is now and I can't help but feel that in some places we're embarking on a slippery slope (I was reading Ubuntu planet!). I have another question though: why isn't fedora considered a "free" distribution on the FSF website. I understand why Debian isn't, as it provides the "non-free" repos but Fedora Project itself doesn't have anything like this. (I know livna etc but they're separate from the project). Jon -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html