D&C GLug - Home Page

[ Date Index ] [ Thread Index ] [ <= Previous by date / thread ] [ Next by date / thread => ]

Re: [LUG] Flash Player 9 for PPC

 

On Wed, Nov 15, 2006 at 08:48:38PM +0000, Mark Jose wrote:

> I dislike the Microsoft company methods - their ethics if you like.
> Thats the main reason I don't use Windows. 

Right, so you don't like their proprietary nature.

> I advocate GNU/Linux to many of the people whose computers I have to clean
> off viruses, worms, trojans. spyware.... but I never had those issues myself 
> whilst on Windows.

When you advocate this to them, do you recommend a distro? Which? Do you refer
to it as GNU/Linux? Do you explain what GNU is? Do you explain free software?

Curious about those :)
 
> How many in the wider community would agree with that though Matt?

Not enough.

> Personally, popularity or otherwise doesn't worry me too much, although of 
> course it can be argued that popularity would bring more volunteers to work 
> on projects perhaps. But the wider community seem to want converts to the 
> GNU/Linux camp. 

What's better, more people using a free system or more people using a system
where they install proprietary software? To me, that negates the point of
freedom.

> I would agree that a distro should offer the choice to the user of free or 
> non-free software. Whether Ubuntu or whoever should distribute their release 
> with non-free programs will doubtless be discussed at length on their mailing
> lists. Perhaps two downloads - one as usual and one with the non-free stuff 
> may be a compromise - after all, the non-free programs are always available 
> to users already - even in Debian. It would be interesting to see which 
> proved the more popular version. 

Actually, in Debian you have to add the respository manually, but yes it is
there. I think they should not offer any proprietary software.

> Are you saying that no non-free should be available, full stop, for distros? 

Yes.

> Even within a non-free repository such as those used by Ubuntu and Debian?

Yes.

> I would suspect any distro which refused to allow *any* non-free software to 
> be installed would soon lose ground to the rest.

Popularity. That is not the mission of GNU/Linux, that is the mission of XP
and Mac OS X.

Such a distro exists - http://www.gnewsense.org/ - you should check it out.

> The Debian/Ubuntu method - 
> where that software is kept in a seperate repository and you have to 
> physically add it to get the software if you want it - is the best compromise

No, having websites run by other people where people could get non-free
software would be a compromise. Having them run by Debian/Ubuntu is not
acceptable.

> The user is informed as to why the software is seperate from the 
> rest and then it is their choice.

Informing users is a wonderful thing. Ubuntu seem keen to not do this,
by shipping binaries with the OS.

> Because I can contribute to GNU/Linux - at least the free part with code or 
> documentation perhaps? Or with some advocacy, bug testing or reporting? I 
> cannot practically do so for Mac OSX. 

Why not? An awful lot of OS X is free software, there's even a lot of stuff
from the GNU project in there. There's a fair bit of non-free stuff too, but
it sounds like you've already got that.

> Even with regard to non-free software within my system - such as VMWare - I 
> can write documentation on how to install or use the software within a 
> distro. 

That is damaging to the community and I would ask you not to do that. Also,
you could not run VMWare. If you need to run a proprietary operating system
there are ways to do that without tainting your system.

> Whilst I would like to see all these binaries released under the GPL and 
> opened up, it isn't going to happen I suspect. ATI and Nvidia are in direct 
> competition and industry secrets are carefully guarded. It will take a while 
> before 3d support is sufficiently good enough for me to be able to employ it 
> here on my main system. 

Actually, I suspect that ATI and Nvidia are infringing on a lot of each
other's patents, and if one of them would release free drivers (and I suspect
it will be ATI, but I have little proof for that) then it could be settled in
court and they'd both able to eventually offer free drivers.

> So - should I call my main system a "GNU/Linux based" 
> system and my other boxes "GNU/Linux"? 

If they run the GNU system and Linux as a kernel, yes.

> Are those who use a few non-free programs alongside their GNU/Linux core not 
> at least experiencing the pleasures of the Open Source community and 
> software?

What's the pleasure of the open source community? We're talking about
free software here, which is similar, but I'm sure open source people would
agree with you. People like Eric S. Raymond - however he has never shared
the goals of the free software movement.

> I suspect we will have to agree to disagree on that area Matt  - I admire
> your stance on the free software points, but totally free is just not
> practical for now on my main system. 

I'd be keen to see a list of stuff you have installed.

matt

-- 
Matt Lee
Chief Webmaster, GNU Project - http://www.gnu.org/ - Free as in Freedom
Free Software Foundation - Free Software, Free Society - http://www.fsf.org/

-- 
The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG
http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list
FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html