Re: [LUG] Learning a language with linux

[Simon Waters <Simon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Tony Atkin wrote:
> Sorry, but I felt obliged to change the subject header
>
> On Wednesday 04 February 2004 14:22, James Wonnacott wrote:
>
> > We were having a discussion on this topic today at the school where I
> > work. Some of the students want to start to learn some programming:

Abstract concepts are the thing to teach, and only a little bit of the
mechanics. If you understand why modularisation is a good thing, or
information hiding, or inheritence, you can easily discover how to use
it on a particular language or system.

My problems with programming mostly stem from not covering enough
general concepts.

Also too much emphasis on procedural programming languages hurts - they
should learn SQL (or similar) - so at least they understand programs
don't have to look like C/Basic/Fortran - but perhaps also a scripting
language (bash/Perl). I never mastered much of the list processing
languages (except maybe LOGO), nor functional programming languages, and
I fear it shows.

Maybe you can even leave language choice to the students, if they
discover a better language to solve a particular exercise in that is
worth a few extra points (I think).

Also ask them to (constructively) critique their own solutions and if
that fails each other.

> > we have staff willing to learn and want to know what language to use. As
> > we have a system where most of our PCs will boot into Linux or windows I
> > suggested using a C on Linux, however the question which arose was what
> > help/ teach youself/getting started is there.

I've still to find a good book on C programming - it is messy - and to
teach it without teaching bad habits is I fear challenging unless your a
C guru. Even plagarising bits of the GNU "Hello World" package got me
into trouble, as it used some out of date syntax in places.

> I'm not a progammer myself
> > and have no experience of using C but said I'd post
> > on this list for any advice you could give.
> > I'm trying to increase the use of Linux here and demonstrate its
> > advantages so please, any help would be great.

One of the big pluses is the vast amount of source code you can read -
some of it is very good. But I fear much of it is C.

> I'm not an educationalist so maybe someone else can describe what I am 
> trying to say a little better, but I think the question is about reward.  
> If you are trying to learn something then it helps if your learning is 
> rewarded by results - feedback loops start occurring.  The problem with C, 
> is that you have to learn so much before you can start writing code which 
> will give you some really interesting results.

That is why LOGO had a turtle - even the most novice programmer got a
clear graphical output - even if it was only a line going off the screen.

LOGO is far more than a toy language.

http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue43/silva.logo.html
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/

And at the end of it they'll be able to program EMACS - or at least make
a far better stab at mastering LISP than I ever did.

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