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[LUG] Learning a language with linux



Sorry, but I felt obliged to change the subject header

On Wednesday 04 February 2004 14:22, James Wonnacott wrote:
We were having a discussion on this topic today at the school where I
work. Some of the students want to start to learn some programming:
we have staff willing to learn and want to know what language to use. As
we have a system where most of our PCs will boot into Linux or windows I
suggested using a C on Linux, however the question which arose was what
help/ teach youself/getting started is there. I'm not a progammer myself
and have no experience of using C but said I'd post
on this list for any advice you could give.
I'm trying to increase the use of Linux here and demonstrate its
advantages so please, any help would be great.


I'm not an educationalist so maybe someone else can describe what I am 
trying to say a little better, but I think the question is about reward.  
If you are trying to learn something then it helps if your learning is 
rewarded by results - feedback loops start occurring.  The problem with C, 
is that you have to learn so much before you can start writing code which 
will give you some really interesting results. I admit that this opinion 
is open to question but personally, as an amataur, I have never found the 
write code - get reward/result cycle to be anything like fast enough for 
my limited brain.

I tried Visual Basic long ago.  With that you can get rewarded without 
having to write any code at all.  Drag and drop and - "cool, I have a user 
interface" - but then you have to start actually writing code and things 
get a lot harder (insert fav. vb hate story here).

Then I spent a lot of time with Java - but should have learned C++ instead! 
- probably just as difficult and certainly a lot slower. But then most 
people would not have been foolish enough to try running a Java GUI built 
with Swing components on a P133.

After that, I gave up on GUI stuff and tried Python.  The tutorial that 
came with it was excellent, although I got a bit lost about 3/4 the way 
through, but then it was intended as a tutorial to the whole language and 
not a beginners guide.  Since then I have grown to love the language.  It 
has has a very good effort/reward ratio. I believe it should be relatively 
easy for tutors to pick up enough about the language to start teaching 
students about it.  As a scripting language it doesn't require a compile 
stage.  It is also helpful that the language is cross-platform and 
open-source - you might be running python on linux machines at college, 
but a student who really picks up on it and wants to work at home might 
need to run it on a windows machine - just give them a CD!  (I'm being 
practical here, not idealistic).  With a little thought, tutors could come 
up with several coding projects for students to try out.  For those who 
really want to try GUI coding there is always WXPython, which has matured 
a lot since I first encountered it and is developing a good-looking 
open-soure IDE in "Boa Constructor".  Anyway, if you choose Python, keep 
me informed, I will be glad to help.

Tony
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