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Paul Hewson wrote: > > I know cvs etc. are for programming projects, but don't they have some > potential? > > Is there that much difference between html source / cgi scripts etc. and c > source files????? > > I don't think I'm seriously suggesting cvs or rcs, but I wonder what may be > around that's based on them. For my sins I use to sell Software Configuration management tools. So such issues were key to making a living. Tools like RCS and CVS are okay for source code management, but in themselves they do not provide much process. This was one of the issues we had with our product, it was probably the best tool for managing concurrent versions of source code (A bit like the best bits of CVS and Microsoft VSS, but cross platform, GUI or Command line, and customisable). But a lot of the software development process doesn't require parallel development, just simple revisioning. The configuration management software adds value by; Understanding your objects Implementing process So in say Engineering, the tools that handle CAD diagrams, understand what an assembly is, you can query for assemblies that use a component, or query on the basis of elements of the manufacturing process ("What parts can't be made on our current lathes" type queries). Thus a simple CAD tool can be used to help plan manufacturing of the parts designed, and the life cycle of a part. In a web publishing system this might be an understanding of the relationship implied by a URL. That deleting a CGI script means having to update references to it. Similarly processes, like peer review, or 'sign-off', or publishing, are useful in groupware for technical documents, but have little or nothing to do with the content, but a lot to do with practicalities of days to day work. Like making sure people review the stuff they are suppose to. >From a mechanical perspective web pages are like source code, so yes tools can be built around these SCM tools, but it may be possible to use a simpler revision mechanism, and build a far better web publishing tool. Indeed the clever revisioning mechanisms can make configuration management more involved, as the software CM tools would move a bug fix across versions easily, but you usually have to manage releases of a version at the package level, to make sure all the bug fixes live happily together, and apply at this version. For most purposes a good merge tool for your current document format will do 90% of the clever stuff the SCM tools do. The biggest problem we found with software was the moving target - people wanted SCM tools integrated to the latest and greatest software development products, be it Microsoft Visual Studio, PowerBuilder, JBuilder, Oracle Designer - for which many of the tool authors hadn't given a thought to good configuration management techniques. In these situation a really simple tool like PVCS could do the integrations quicker and cheaper, which would satisfy people not attempting to maintain multiple versions of software. Similarly for document management, people want to ability to "diff", or redline, wordprocessing documents, presentations, and the like (They may not know they want it, but they recognise it when it is given to them). Again the targets keep moving, and the interest is mainly the minority technical authors, be it scientific, medical or legal. I've seen some great, low cost, workflow style systems, where you can define software lifecycle, or "Medical paper" lifecycle, or a "standard writing" lifecycle. And it will manage peoples in-trays of work, allow people to indicate when they have done the next step, show who is behind, who is ahead etc. But this style of running a business is very formalised, and not to everyones taste. In the end the SCM tool vendor I worked with, merged a cheap Windows based tool of this kind specifically aimed at software houses, so you could ask, "Which developer is working on the most bug fixes", or "which developers are working on a bug fix that should be released by the end of next month", or "which features have been added to the latest release", or "which customers are waiting for this feature". Similarly when a software release was issued, it would prompt customer support to ring up the customers who needed fixes included in the release. Developers could go browse the latest bug reports, or their managers could allocate them bugs to fix. Anyway enough rambling - I think my point is that workflow may be as or more important than clever SCM tricks - of course if you merge the two successfully you may have the next killer application. Simon -- Are you using the Internet to best effect ? www.eighth-layer.com Tel: +44(0)1395 232769 ICQ: 116952768 Moderated discussion of teleworking at news:uk.business.telework -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG Mail majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxx with "unsubscribe list" in the message body to unsubscribe.