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On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 22:14:43 +0000 Simon Avery <digdilem@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > It annoys me. Some things it does are new and non-logical to my mind, > but not so annoying that i've seriously wished to dump Debian in > favour of Devuan (which always seemed like a daft idea - why leave > the world's best distribution for something else? Especially as you > can use Sysv on Debian too, it's just not the default). > > I trust the Debian team to do right by me, even if I don't always > understand their choices. Mostly my trust is repaid. > > Most users won't have any issue with it. > > Those that do will have to learn new systems for old problems, and > find some new problems. Documentation is sometimes sparse but I've > yet to encounter anything that has proved significantly troublesome. > > I think I probably dislike it on principle rather than logic. Like > being English - I'd miss the weather if it stopped being awful and I > had nothing to complain about. systemd is useful and sometimes fun to > moan about. > > S > > On 8 December 2017 at 13:57, Julian Hall <linux@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > On 08/12/17 12:26, George Parker wrote: > > > >> Hi Gang, > >> > >> So, now that the dust has settled a bit how is Sytemd panning out? > >> I moved house last year and was in limbo for 6 months so put off > >> updating Mint 17.3. But now I'm resettled I want to move on but am > >> reluctant to wrestle with systemd. I'm looking at Devuan and it's > >> derivatives which seem to be very well liked by the users, but > >> that may be because they are very conservative in their tastes. > >> Any thoughts? > >> > >> George > >> > > Hi George, > > > > Aside from some teething issues with my NAS on NFS - ironed out by > > simplifying my fstab - I've not had any major issues with systemd. I > > upgraded Mint a couple of days ago - the current iteration is Sylvia > > (18.3). Of course YMMV depending on the system's purpose and - I > > assume - how complex a network you have. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Julian > > > > > > -- > > The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG > > https://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list > > FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/listfaq > > I'm going to try and not rise to the bait... The arguments for and against systemd are well rehearsed and IMHO the very strong case against it prevails. In a number of different production environments over the last 20 years, I have used and abused RedHat, Scientific Linux, Centos and Fedora on the rpm side and Ubuntu, Mint, Debian and Devuan on the deb; Knoppix, UBD or Parted Magic (checksummed) disks for Windows-based emergencies, although I prefer the rescue functions of the Debian installer for Linux emergencies. I migrated three machines from Debian Jessie to Devuan Jessie at beta 1.0, and noticed an immediate improvement in stability; I upgraded the last four machines at Jessie 1.0.0 (stable RC), and staggered the upgrade to Ascii over a couple of months. I am currently upgrading udev to eudev on all machines: the package has gone from 'experimental' to 'main' in less than a month and three upgrades. That's got to be fast in anybody's book . In terms of support, the forum (https://dev1galaxy.org/index.php) and the mailing list (https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/list/dng.en.html) are robust and informative. The 'vua' of devuan is an acronym of Veteran Unix Admins; that in itself is halfway good enough: to my mind, in a production environment, the most important consideration after security is stability. So call me conservative, reactionary even, but I cannot be doing with a tool that has an opinion on how to behave when under load. Also, the 'Securing Debian' manual is based on Wheezy, and can be directly used as a guide to securing a devuan machine. (https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/securing-debian-howto/) In a nutshell, my advice is that before making the choice between systemd-sysV init and native sysV init, I would really get to grips with the issues. They really are not trivial. You could always try dual-booting while you are gathering your facts. And while I'm nailing colours to masts, what's the policy on top posting around here.... fraser -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG https://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/listfaq