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Re: [LUG] forum?

 

That is very interesting. Good to hear from someone with real experience of 
this. I suppose that the system comes into its own when there is no 
alternative. Developing world countries often have sparse infrastructure.

note: the VoIP bandwidth depends very much on the codec used. But that is in 
the hands of the user.

Dave Berkeley

On Friday 30 January 2009 13:19:36 Gordon Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009, Simon Waters wrote:
> > Tom Potts wrote:
> >> Dependence on telcos will result in all sorts of ill thought out
> >> stupidity - there are moves afoot to sideline P2P 'in case someone uses
> >> it for downloading music that only costs 10* the price the musician gets
> >> for it to keep the parasitic music industry going and no other reason' 
> >> OK so we can run everything over port80 using tunnelling but 
> >> belts,braces and pringles aerials .... I can see 54Meg point 2 point
> >> connections costing  <£100 for 10km reach...
> >
> > Speaking as someone who helped build 10Km wifi links, we did it for
> > cheap, but it wasn't easy. And cheap is a relative term - antennas and
> > decent cables/connectors cost money - fortunately our radio guy had all
> > that already.
> >
> > 54Mbps may be the spec on the devices, but over long distances WiFi
> > can't do that (nor can WiMax do its 70Mbps over distance). Some Intel
> > wifi devices use to let you tweak the algorithms for transmission, and
> > we got significantly better than 56Kbps out of the links, enough to call
> > it broadband and connect a few cottages.
> >
> > I think you are stuck with licensed radio links for most performance
> > networking - like - urm - the telecoms companies do.
>
> I was once heavilly involved with rural broadband projects in the South
> west - Buckfastleigh in Devon and Penwith+somewhere else in Cornwall.
> Google might tell you something about the Buckfastleigh Broadband project
> however, I doubt you'll find much about 1st Broadband who ran the
> commercial side of it.
>
> Basically it failled. It cost too much and the punters weren't willing to
> pay and BT were chasing us and enabling the exchanges way before their
> target dates... 1st Broadband went bust twice and I eventually took it
> over myself with the help of an RDA grant to keep the Buckfastleigh side
> going (had 50 'customers' here) before BT enabled the exchange.
>
> It cost a lot because we did it properly - we used decent (for the time)
> outdoor kit, all at rooftop level, to guarantee line of sight - paid
> farmers, etc. to host base stations - relied on the goodwill of others to
> host other repeater nodes. It was costing us upward of £250 for each
> install by the time we took into account the cost of the hardware, the
> cost of the person to go up the ladder and fit it (we used local sky
> installers as they had insurance and tools), consumables, etc.
>
> We made it work, but it was expensive, and it took just one P2P user to
> kill an entire segment of the network.
>
> VoIP over Wi-Fi isn't reliable either - sure, you can make it work at
> home, but all it takes is one PC to get/put a big file and it'll kill a
> conversation. There are more expensive access points now with traffic
> management though - but it's still not perfect. VoIP is inherently full
> duplex and Wi-Fi is half duplex. VoIP sends 50 packets of 160 bytes per
> second each way. Some of the cheaper access points take the same time to
> do a link turn-around as a single packet.
>
> Our longest link was 17.5Km from Marldon masts to a farm on Dartmoor. That
> was using a pair of 2' dishes and 5.8GHz kit. The longest Wi-Fi link was
> about 10Km - pure line of sight with a high gain onmi at the base station
> and an 18db grid antennae at the client end.
>
> Buckfastleigh was described at the time like living in an egg box...
> Trying to get line of sight was hard at times - then the town council
> whinged that were were interfering with their CCTV system....
>
> >>> When I see churches in rural areas, I see a big communications tower
> >>> (you can hide a wifi antenna very easily)
> >
> > Urm since wifi is predominantly line of site - you can't really hide
> > them. Although I know this guy who can make very stylish antennas for
> > you, and know which guttering has the best microwave properties if you
> > prefer the weatherproofed look.
> >
> > One church let us stick a satellite dish antenna on their tower for
> > demonstration purposes, but I'm guessing that we wouldn't have got
> > planning permission for a permanent fixture.
>
> We approacked some churches. They all said no. Buckfast Abbey did help us,
> but only because we gave them a nice feed for free.
>
> > What I never realised was that many prominent hill tops have regular UK
> > power sockets on top of them, to plug in all the radio gear. The radio
> > hams have been here (there) before. So often it is just a case of asking
> > whoever is paying the electricity bill.
>
> Good luck to anyone who tries this - again. I really don't think it's
> worthwhile persuing anymore - yes, I know there are still some communities
> outside the rach of BT, and for them it may work - as long as there is a
> genuine commitment from the subscribers, but general-purpose? Forget it.
>
> Or maybe I'm just too cynical over it all - I did dedicate a lot of my
> time and efforts to this and after my experiences, I won't ever do it
> again!
>
> Gordon


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