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On Monday 15 September 2008 08:07, Neil Williams wrote: > Debian got this in the neck before Etch and there was loud condemnation > of the reaction but Mozilla are now showing their dragon-like legal > teeth and going after everyone else who DARES to treat Firefox as free > software. Current target: Ubuntu. I see no reason why they will stop > there, Fedora and SUSE are sure to be next, then everyone else. Mozilla > state that nobody is able to modify FireFox without their prior approval > if they still want to call it FireFox. That is not free. To be free > software, the firefox codebase must not use the FireFox branding. > Simple. If you call it FireFox, you must not change a single byte > without getting the change "signed-off" by Mozilla. How can that be > free? That is about as free as Internet Explorer. Gee, I have access to > the firefox source code - but I can't modify it so what is the point? > > Firefox is not free software, it has not been free software since before > Debian 4.0 "Etch" was released and it will continue to be non-free until > Mozilla see sense and stop penalising those who are supposed to be on > the same side. (Reminiscent of SCO.) > > Ubuntu are complaining but without effect: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/269656/ > > Unbelievably, Mark Shuttleworth has come down on the side of Mozilla, as > if the retention of the contaminated Firefox brand supports Ubuntu. In > reality, the disease known as EULA is a poison that is weakening Ubuntu > and FireFox has now set a dangerous precedent. > > Other respondents have already indicated that this EULA now forces them > to get approval from the corporate legal team for Ubuntu - approval that > Debian would not need - because FireFox is installed by default. > Retaining Firefox in the climate of open hostility now evident from > Mozilla is madness, especially in the default install. > > Ubuntu have the easy out - iceweasel is already available to them - but > those in charge of Ubuntu appear to be paralysed in fear at losing > "TheFireFoxBrand" as if it was important. > > What *is* important is that free software users (corporate or home) do > not get EULA notices that remind them of Windows, that free software > packages do not make it impossible to derive from Ubuntu by invalidating > the GPL (additional restrictions). > > Honestly, I am *so* glad that Debian got this sorted at the first > opportunity. Yes, it was unpopular, it was regrettable, it could be > reversed overnight if Mozilla ever see sense but it WAS the right thing > to do and IMNSHO it IS the right thing for Ubuntu to do. > > The word "firefox" is not free - dump it. (Don't think that Thunderbird > is safe either - Mozilla have already said that every additional > restriction that applies to FireFox also applies to Thunderbird.) > > I will no longer be recommending Ubuntu. Until Ubuntu drop FireFox, I > regard Ubuntu as non-free. (I stopped recommending FireFox before Etch > was released.) The same is true of Fedora and SUSE and anyone else who > continues to distribute a modified version of FireFox (even if the > modifications are entirely related to the packaging requirements of the > distribution concerned). Firefox on my Aspire1 is doomed - Debian is > imminent. > > If you want a decent browser, use epiphany. > > By all means use FireFox on Windows - the natural home of the EULA. I think we're getting lost here - the software IS free, Firefox software is free - FireFox branding is not. Debian branding is not free either so you should drop that too. Or would you mind if I too Debian source, threw most of it away and replaced the kernel with NTLoader and sent it out as 'Debian' cos thats what your effectively demanding of Mozilla over the 'FireFox' brand. They retain control of the brand and how it works - there been 1/2 a billion downloads of FireFox and you want 50,000 Debian users to take control of it for their own reasons. Even Bill Gates would at least try and buy the company first before doing that! Please can we fight the enemy and not the Palestinian Liberation Front or was it the Peoples Popular front for..... Tom te tom te tom -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html