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Y'know, I think the bigger picture is being missed here - which is the far more common-or-garden user and good old human nature. Not only ignorant of the basics, but unwilling to address them and any arguement is pretty much pointless, nor might they notice if they did have issues. I quote the following from this morning, in the cornwall Facebook geocaching group; "What's going on? getting a malware warning when trying to visit this cache GC3CARY. Is it safe to proceed, it says geocaching.com contains malware content from a certain site, but I've never got it come up on any other cache." Emilie: I get that if I use Firefox... so use I.E. instead. Chris: Ever seen a terminator movie? Google IS Skynet, the end Joe: Nice hat! Me: CACHEOWNERS have put their background image on a server which hosts, or has hosted, malicious code. In this case the single jpg is probably harmless, but it's quite bad advice to use IE instead of FF if FF is giving you warnings - especially on suspect sites, IE is not a very safe browser. Emilie: I use Avast security & have never had a problem. I prefer the layout in I.E. & am not afraid to admit it This highlights the need for ease. "Something gets in the way of using my computer the way I want to? Work around it". That is a basic human trait, and if good security gets "in the way", a percentage of people will bypass it. No point wringing your hands or berating them, it won't change things, only building software and low level tools that prevent the attack vectors completely, whilst not making it harder to use, will make any big impact on this problem. ....And then the bad guys will think up a new attack vector and the arms race starts over... -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/listfaq