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Does anyone know of any weapons grade php crud for web pages or am I gonna have to write one? Tom te tom te tom Try P4A. It's an OOP PHP framework for web based database applications. It's very powerful and needs little coding to get up and running. Documentation is sparse but the forums are active and you can usually get a response pretty quickly. I've used v2.2x extensively and happily. I've had trouble with the new v3.0 though. Martin -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html