Re: [LUG] Upgrades to mandrake 7.2 ?

[kevin bailey <kevin_bailey@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

hi

in my opinion - and i'm going to get stick for this - RPM's are crap.  i 
used RH/mandrake months and i tried to upgrade stuff on a mandrake 7.2 
and it eventually the dependencies just became too much of a mess.

debian packages are a dream come true.  if i want netscape installed i 
just type

apt-get install communicator

and it will either install it from my debian CD or if there is a later 
version at ftp.debian.org it will fetch that one instead - even if it 
takes a couple of hours it has never gone wrong.  even when the modem 
loses the link and redials.

if i want mozilla i type

apt-get install mozilla

before i go to bed and in the morning mozilla is installed.

using icewm means that the programs automatically get an entry added to 
the start/programs button.  any dependencies are automatically installed 
as well.

here is another one which may cause stick...

debian is the true linux - ouch!  i can't belive i wrote that!! :0)   it 
is non-commercial and maintained by hundreds of volenteers.

mandrake/suse/red hat etc are commercial and suffer the problems of being 
rushed - and bodged around with.  mandrake produces its own RPM's and 
also has a heavily modified kernel.  and they also install tons of 
scripts and setup the system services in ways they ASSUME are best for 
the majority of users.  you can make it better but the dependency issues 
of package A requires package B and package B requires package C and 
package C requires package A will get you in the end.

we are all free to choose but i choose debian because i can install a 
very basic setup and then carefully add packages as required.  and remove 
those packages and all dependencies are taken care of.  the aim is to 
have a machine which never requires a reinstall of the OS and this is 
currently looking very possible.

for servers slackware is probably the best because it is even more basic 
- but very reliable/stable etc.

maybe i missed something crucial about RPM's - but i thought i'd chuck in 
my opinion cos it is the result of a couple of years of linux use,

kev


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

On 12/15/01, 11:59:12 AM, "Ray Smith" <raysmith@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote 
regarding [LUG] Upgrades to mandrake 7.2 ?:


> I'm running 7.2 Mandrake for one reason. Mandrake 8 and all other 
versions
> odf linux with xfree version greater than 4.01 don't work with my ATi 
rage
> pro 128 :-(

> I'm very happy with it but of course there's some thing that I don't 
have.
> The newer kernels. I could upgrade this but the only usb device I have is 
my
> scanner and handspring visor. The visor works great with linux and the
> scanner I can live with running under windows.

> Some of the newer 3D apps,games etc need newer version of SDL but when I 
try
> to install these & all their dependencies my existing games and apps no
> longer work properly ! So I would have to donload and compile all the 
newer
> version of those too.

> So what I do want is the newer version of KDE & Gnome (well the Ximian
> version anyway). I somehow got Ximian to install ONCE my forceing all the
> rpm's to ignore dependencies & it worked from the linux format cover cd 
but
> after a reinstall from a crashed disk I have never been able to get it to
> install again even by trying the same method.
> And the redcarpet installer to update online is a HUGE download.

> KDE ? I've tried to install this following suggestion in this group but
> after kde starts every single application I try to run comes up with a
> segmentation error !

> Now one of the reasons I like linux so much was the feeling of choice I
> have. The ability to have my system running exactly as I wanted. I
> customized windowmaker to how I wanted and sawfish. Installed all the 
apps I
> wanted removed ones I didn't. Compiled kernels to take out stuff like 
scsi
> that I don't use to it boots faster etc. etc.

> But.... Why is it that upgrading certain parts of the operating system 
break
> other parts. Such as SDL or X.
> 4.01 worked a treat. Even with my old banshee card. As did 4.02 and 4.03
> with the banshee. Now 4.1 cause problems with the banshee with some via
> chipsets and won;t work at all with my ati card even though it now works
> with the Radeon ! (even then you need to compile to latest source from 
the
> CVS tree according to loads of people on the DRI mailing list).

> Mandrake 8.1. Blimey, aren't I going on. Ooh lovely but hang on. sound 
card
> works after install. Now it doesn't. rund sound config. works again. next
> time booted no sound. run sndconfig. No isapnp installed. check rpm tree.
> yes it is. ok maybe it's a permission problems. (Suse is always doing 
this
> after running it's own configuration scripts. Tip. avoid yast2 and edit
> scripts yourself) got to /dev folder. Wheres all the files in the /dev 
tree
> gone. No sndstat files to change to 666 or mid or snd etc.

> The worst bit. Can I install my old X driver. Not flaming likely mate. 
Too
> many dependies have been upgraded by the rest of the system.

> Windows has a lot of bad rap but one thing I can say is that if I put on 
a
> drive that doen't work as well I can uninstall it & put the old one back 
on
> ! Or at least shove in the windows CD and restore the original config 
files.

> I use linux most of the time (even though I'm using outlook for this 
mail)
> but guess who is getting a bit ticked off with some stuff.

> This list isn't the place to sound off I know but I would welcome 
suggestion
> on how to get certain parts of my 7.2 system updated without cocking up
> other bits based on what I've said above.

> I can't believe I've gone on for so long.

> Sorry everybody.

> Ray Smith.

> (From the only windows desktop of Win 98)


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